[pp.int.general] Pirates and the 5 Star Movement

[Travis McCrea]

Another case when Rick and I see eye to eye (or at least I think we do),
it is important for Pirates to remember that the reason we need higher levels of democracy and such in Government is because people can't opt-out of being in government. People are not forced to be participating members of the Pirate Party, and we shouldn't hold ourselves to the same standards we would hold a government to.

Things like democracy, transparency, privacy, etc they are all tools and have multiple levels of application. Since people have no way of opting out of being ruled by the government, it must have the most liberal policies regarding these. Private organizations and clubs do not need to be held to such high standards, and the methods and tools that we use within our private organizations do not necessarily scale to government (nor visa versa). 

I would suggest that we look more towards transparency than democracy. When democracy works, use it… but if another method of decision making is available or critical then you shouldn't feel ashamed to do that. Living in the states, I can tell you that if we were 100% democratic in decision making things like gay rights or healthcare might be questionable even within our own party, but we believe that these are cornerstones of being a pirate. As long as you explain your actions and make your decision making transparent, then I don't think it's wrong to have representative structures. 

Travis McCrea
Pirate Party of Canada
The Ultimate Ebook Library
Kopimist Church of Idaho

Phone: 1(206)552-8728 US Call/Text
IRC: irc.freenode.net, irc.pirateirc.net (TeamColtra or TravisMcCrea)
Web: travismccrea.com
IM: teamcoltra at 451.im (jabber) teamcoltra (AIM)

On 2013-03-02, at 5:26 AM, "Rick Falkvinge (Piratpartiet)" <rick.falkvinge at piratpartiet.se> wrote:

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>> I am all for internal democracy but it is a difficult game to play,
>> with some learning required.
> 
> It is crucial to remember that internal democracy is not and was never
> our goal. It is a method to reach our goal. A process. One of many.
> 
> Our goal is to reform legislation to resonate with our values.
> 
> Personally, I find internal democracy to be one tool among many to
> resolve conflicts. It is not one of the better ones when it comes to
> safeguarding diversity, trust, and speed. Consensus or meritocratic
> resolutions of conflicts are preferable in most cases, in my opinion.
> 
> Voting is a tool to allow a group to move forward in a conflict
> scenario, but it is important to remember that the process of voting
> creates losers by definition, and is therefore psychologically costly
> in an activist organization if alternative resolution conflict
> mechanisms are available.
> 
> Cheers,
> Rick
> 
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