[pp.int.general] Pirates and the 5 Star Movement

[Anouk Neeteson]

Your confusion originates from the seperation between activism sec and
politics. The pirate party is /principaly/ a political organisation is what
Rick explains and the 'activism' is enclised in achieving the PP
principles. You on the other hand do not seperate these two principles. You
'prefer' idealism over politics.

I often try to explain that this is the problem of the (unprecise defined)
pirate-ethics. Unfortunately many of you think I mean more ethics. This is
not (neccesarily) the case, I call for a /precise/ definition of the
/existing/ ideology (=ethics). So these fundamental confusions can be
avoided.

My 2cents
Sincerely,
Anouk
On Mar 2, 2013 2:46 p.m., "Eduardo Robles Elvira" <edulix at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Rick Falkvinge (Piratpartiet)
> <rick.falkvinge at piratpartiet.se> wrote:
> >> I am all for internal democracy but it is a difficult game to play,
> >> with some learning required.
> >
> > It is crucial to remember that internal democracy is not and was never
> > our goal. It is a method to reach our goal. A process. One of many.
> >
> > Our goal is to reform legislation to resonate with our values.
>
> Hello:
>
> When you talk about "our goal", are you talking about your national
> party or the pirate movement? I find this wording confusing, and I
> think that in many pirate parties "our goal" is also to have internal
> democracy, ie. practice what you preach. Many pirate parties are using
> internally liquid feedback and other democracy tools internally to
> promote this kind of goal.
>
> For me it's quite strange to hear that internal democracy is not a
> goal for a pirate party, really. It might not be a direct or liquid
> democracy internally, but the organization should at least be
> democratic, with internal elections every now and then, and such. It
> would probably be newsworthy to say that a given pirate party is not
> democratic itself.
>
> Furthermore, as I said many pirate parties that I know value direct
> and liquid democracy, and they promote these values as much as they
> can. And of course one very valid way of promoting it is to apply
> these techniques internally, I find this to be the most natural thing.
>
> One cannot vote *everything* in a political party. It doesn't make
> sense to vote if I send this message or not, for example. But the many
> important things can probably be voted, even if it might seem not the
> most efficient way for you, and decided together by the pirates.
>
> Regards,
>   Eduardo
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