[pp.int.general] Formal protest from Pirate Party Australia

Tue Mar 12 09:35:17 CET 2013

Hey guys - read something about communicating effectively. Go to a
training, big companies often sponsor such sessions for its employees.
 I would recommend that all the parties did such training for all
board members.

Here is just one advice - trying to destroy someone by emails
practically never works.  Accept that we have to live with each other
and cooperate.

All I see in the board actions is honest mistakes and postponing
reactions because of fear of responses like this one (below).  First
of all please note that Gregory Engels is the only board member that
engages in the discussions here - do you want to make the board even
more insular?

And read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_attribution_error
for fucks sake!

Kind Regards,
Zbigniew Łukasiak

On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com> wrote:
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> On 3/11/2013 6:03 PM, Gregory Engels wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11.03.2013, at 01:10, Mozart Palmer
>> <mozart.palmer at pp-international.net
>> <mailto:mozart.palmer at pp-international.net>> wrote:
>>
>>> It doesn't take much to inform a member of your organisation that you
>>> have received an official letter from them and to inform them when it
>>> will be discussed.
>>>
>>
>> no, it does not take that long, and I like to apologize to not having
>> acknowledged the reception of your letter. On the other hand you also
>> did not get a send failure report. (ok, this is lame, but really - it is
>> an email, you are expecting us to get it, there is not so much point in
>> writing out a one liner of "we got it", but you are right, this was not
>> handled with excellence)
>>>
>>> I suppose the board has also been too busy to respond to the
>>> resignation of the court of arbitration which occurred in September
>>>
>> As we have outlined in countless email and even a minutes entry, we did
>> have acknowledge the reception of the said email, but we are not in the
>> position to acknowledge a resignation of a body that is elected by the
>> GA and has statutory duties. We may have different opinions here, but we
>> did react on several occasions and have always communicated a clear and
>> coherent message here, so I don't accept your accusations as valid.
>
> You may have 'a message', but it's not a truthful, or valid one.
>
> PPI Statutes (http://wiki.pp-international.net/Statutes)
> XIVa (7)The Court of Arbitration shall have between three and seven
> Members. The provisions concerning the election of the Members of the
> Board and vacancies apply accordingly.
>
> Seems pretty clear to me so far, yes?
> So what are those provisions?
> Let's look at XII "functions of the Board" and specifically part (8)
> which says
> (8) A Board member may resign at any moment. After resignation, death,
> long term disease or if a Member of the Board does not execute its
> functions for more than three months, his seat becomes vacant. If the
> seat has neither become vacant by resignation nor death of the Board
> Member the remaining Board Members have to declare the seat as vacant by
> majority vote.
>
> Hmm, seems pretty clear to me that a CoA member may resign AT ANY TIME.
> That's according to the statutes. Not you, and what you wish, but the rules.
>
> Oh, there's another provision too.
>
> (9) If the Board has less than three remaining Members, an extraordinary
> session of the General Assembly has to be held within the next six
> months, if an ordinary session is not scheduled within this period.
>
> According to XIVa(7) These both apply. You can't say you were ignorant
> of these two provisions either, since... Guess who added them to the
> wiki?
> http://wiki.pp-international.net/wiki//index.php?title=Statutes&diff=next&oldid=8331
>
> Second, if the option for them to resign wasn't possible, as you claim,
> why was it an option provided by you, to the Swiss last September?
>
> "Fourth, and as a last resort, if all of the above options are out of
> the question, in order to prevent financial and moral damage to Pirate
> Parties International, some of PPI's CoA Judges have offered a
> collective step-down" (Gregory Engels, "Request for Clarification of
> juristiction" sent September 4 2012)
> This was the option accepted by the group you were addressing (as I have
> already verified)
>
> Or are you telling me that you lied in September, and that the Statutes
> are flat out wrong? Or are you lying to us right now, and the CoA still
> exists (in which case I'm going to file complaints with them about your
> conduct; and your repeated intentional lies to the GA as a whole, to
> member parties and for deliberately subverting the statutes of the PPI)
>
> You are over Gregory, finished. Your lies have caught up with you.
> Don't bother trying to spin your way out of it. The question is, are you
> and the rest of the board going to drag down the PPI, and the Pirate
> image with you, in some attempt to preserve personal power? Or are you
> going to be the statesmen you claim to be, and accept you've been caught
> out?
>
> The funny thing is, I've been working with some lawyers on the copyright
> troll cases here. There's a BIG hearing going on right now about it (see
> #prenda on twitter), and you're acting just like the trolls are.
> Misrepresenting laws, and rules, changing your minds when it suits you,
> claiming one thing then another, and always the moral high ground'.
> Today's not gone well for them, and it's not going well for you either.
>
> BTW, point out the minutes where you agreed something explicitly stated
> in the statutes was not allowed to happen. I think the fact that we have
> board members who can't even read the statutes before making decisions
> seems like more than enough grounds for disqualification from office for
> cause. Of course we can't follow Title XIa because we have no Court
> (despite what you claim).
>
>>
>>> I'm still waiting for my resignation to be acknowledged in writing and
>>> publicly.
>>>
>> This will not happen. please refer to our (nuno cardosos, my, eds, etc…)
>> numerous explanations on this.
>
> Please furnish us with links/copies of these explinations, so we can all
> be aware of which board members have not bothered to apply the statutes
> as they are written.
>
>>
>>> These are basic courtesies.
>>>
>> Agree. Again, please accept my apologies that we did not acknowledged
>> the receipt of PPAU complain. It is flagged in my Inbox with an orange
>> flag, but this is not helping you. And we can still be of different
>> opinions on the matter in question.
>>
>>
>> sincerely yours,
>
> Maybe you should look up 'sincerely'. It means "free from pretence or
> deceit; proceeding from genuine feelings:" As we've just seen, your
> email was NONE of that.
>
>>
>> Gregory Engels
>> Co-Chairman
>> Pirate Parties International
>>
>> mobile: +49 172 853 44 91
>> skype:gregory.engels
>> jabber:dichter at jabber.piratenpartei.de
>> my free time: http://doodle.com/dichter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>
>
> - --
> Andrew Norton
> http://ktetch.co.uk
> Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
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> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

--
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/