[pp.int.general] Formal protest from Pirate Party Australia

Wed Mar 13 18:33:01 CET 2013

well. it is very boring...and has nothing in common with the ppi per se.
why don`t you just send the message to the person you have a problem
instead of us all?
Like I`m doing with this email.

Betiel

2013/3/13 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>

> It's very hard to achieve... as long as you insist on being the pain in
> everybodies ass.
>
> And it seems you run out of rational arguments real soon and have to
> resort to emotional crap and populist bulshit.
>
> You can count on fingers how many times I have brought up the issue...
>
> ... I know it is very boring for the rest of the audience...
>
> ... but it depends also on them that this issue is duly dealt with and
> scrapped of any future agenda.
>
>
> I've got some logical and ethical redlines... you will have peace when you
> cease to challenge them.
>
>
> Antonio.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: i at dario.im
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 15:38:59 +0100
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> CC: jordi at soucheiron.cat
>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Formal protest from Pirate Party Australia
>
> Please, stop referring to us. We are not Australia (OP of this thread).
>
> I guess you know everything about CUP (3,48% of votes in last elections),
> a more-than-20-years-old grassroots and independentist catalan political
> party which ripped off a lot of shared voters between them and us, because
> we overlap in vote population/distribution and social networks. We analyzed
> it statistically and this is what we found (also we have shared members).
>
> How would you win against a similar (in appearance) grassroots movement
> with a 20 times bigger budget (a five-zero figure) than ours, with elected
> representatives and majors, lots of activists and resources everywhere and
> a current political context* favoring independentists movements?
>
> * For everyone who doesn't live in Catalonia: last September 11th
> (national catalan day) we had an independentist demonstration with about
> one million people (we are about seven million people). Next year (2014) it
> is going to be 300th anniversay of our national day and independentism is
> very strong (the second most voted party is independentist - 13,68% of
> votes).
>
> If you dare to plot a feasible masterplan for that kind of situation,
> please, change the subject of this thread to "Here is the masterplan that
> catalan pirates should have followed" and answer my mail. If not, don't
> waste your time answering any mail, because you won't have a clue, and this
> will be my last communication about your constant rant.
>
> Cheers!
>
>
> 2013/3/13 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
>
> Thank you.
>
> Now, can you only imagine how everything looks like from a PP-ES point of
> view... and care to explain to our international audience why for Christ's
> sake from a PIRATE point of view the creation of a separate Pirate Party in
> Catalonia, and all the bullshit it has brought to the pirate situation in
> Spain, in Europe and in the rest of the world was so inevitable?
>
> Hopefully, something different than plain Catalan Seny(l) like the one
> that has some independent Catalan Embassies disseminated throughout the
> world, and keeps bullying international sports federations to have
> independent Catalan delegations accepted at mayor sports events.
>
> But you have experienced that blackmailing Pirate General Assemblies
> pays... at least temporally, so why should you not insist in Kazán?
>
> Meanwhile, anyone for which logics and ethics have meaning... are well on
> their way to exile themselves from any instance where they would be forced
> to coexist with the contamination you represent.
>
> Once the intelligent people are gone, of their own free and unbendable
> will...
>
> ... the rest can but collapse, no matter how much time it takes. It's
> called decadence.
>
>
> Dare call yourself a Pirate... and insist.
>
>
> Antonio.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2013 14:30:54 +0100
> From: jordi at soucheiron.cat
>
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Formal protest from Pirate Party Australia
>
> You're right, in the last elections we didn't perform as well as we'd have
> liked to. But I must disagree with you about the causes of the results of
> the last elections. The main problem we face is not that people know our
> ideals and disagree with them, but the other way round: they don't know
> what we offer as a political party and when they do they mostly agree. What
> we need in order to gain relevance is a huge educational effort, most
> people just think that we only want free downloads from any kind of
> copyrighted content. Fortunately this effort is being done and day by day
> our ideals are starting to be known by the general public.
> On the other hand youre main problem is from another completely different
> nature. You obviously also have the problem stated above (like many other
> pirate parties), but you have a very serious involvement problem. To
> express it in a few words: most individuals that try to make anything
> relevant for your party are demotivated by a very small but influential
> group that sabotages any action that they don't consider appropriate. This
> is causing the gradual dismemberment of the Spanish Pirate Party in a
> Confederation of Pirate Parties that has assimilated all the motivated and
> active individuals that the Spanish Pirate Party has rejected.
> We are a small party, we are well aware of that. But we are already
> working to improve how things work in the local governments where we have a
> seat.
> I would please ask you to abstain writing emails without any kind of
> constructive critique. We are certainly aware of our weaknesses and
> destructive critiques like yours are only a waste of time to many of us
> that don't enjoy from as much free time as you seem to have.
> Sincerely,
> Jordi Soucheiron
>
>
> 2013/3/13 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
>
> Please, care to justify to all those, mainly germans, who put all faith in
> you as a way to solve the Spanish conflict, and rolled out the red carpet
> in PPI and PP-EU...
>
> ... why you failed them so miserably in the last regional elections, not
> being able to perform minimally, even with >1.000 members, even in the
> highly concentrated and urban area of Barcelona.
>
> A Barcelona that projects herself as cosmopolitan and geek-minded as
> Berlin, where the German Pirate Party started to perform extremely well
> recently, even if they have lost north these last months.
>
> You do care, or do you have only vaporware on offer?
>
>
> Antonio.
>
> ------------------------------
> From: david.arcos at gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2013 23:32:30 +0100
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Formal protest from Pirate Party Australia
>
> On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 at 7:10 PM, José Manuel Goig <hosemanuelgoc at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> There is a great difference between PP-CAT and PP-ES. PP-CAT can only act
> in the territory of Catalonia but PP-ES can act in all of the territory of
> Spain, including Catalonia. So, in Catalonia both parties could stand for
> election at the same time competing for the same electorate. This is so
> because Catalonia is right now a part of Spain. Whenever Catalonia chooses
> to be a "sovereign state", all this will change and there will be no
> problem.
>
>
> I'm sorry, but that's B.S. You either have no clue about the Spanish
> electoral law, or are trying to intoxicate.
>
> I feel forced to quote some sources (duty calls! <http://xkcd.com/386/>)
>
>
> - Fact 1: in Spain, all the elections have a *regional circunscription*("provincia"), except for the European elections, where the circunscription
> is all Spain.
>
> Source:
> http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Circunscripciones#Espa.C3.B1a
>
> > España posee *52 circunscripciones* para la elección de diputados de su
> cámara baja: 50 provinciales y 2 pertenecientes a las ciudades de Ceuta y a
> Melilla.
> > En las elecciones al *Parlamento Europeo* España tiene *una única
> circunscripción nacional*.
>
>
>
> - Fact 2: in Spain, the only requirement are (a) providing *full lists*and (b)
> *gathering signatures* ("avales"). Any party (even regional parties) can
> run in all the country (or other regions), provided they have the
> signatures.
>
> Source:
> http://www.portalelectoral.es/content/view/1008/122/
>
> > (...) para poder presentar una *candidatura a las elecciones* al
> Congreso de los Diputados y al Senado, necesitan la firma, al menos, del*0,1 por ciento de los electores
> * inscritos en el censo electoral de la circunscripción por la que
> pretendan su elección.
> > En el caso de las elecciones al *Parlamento Europeo*, el artículo 220.3
> de la LOREG exige para la presentación de candidaturas, como requisito
> común para partidos, federaciones, coaliciones electorales y agrupaciones
> de electores, la acreditación de las* firmas de 15.000 electores*.
>
>
>
> So, legally speaking, PP-CAT:
> - could run for the elections outside Catalan circunscriptions
> - could even run for the full Spain circunscription in the European
> Elections.
> In practice, PP-CAT:
> - could provide lists easily, as it has run in all the elections (4) since
> its creation (2 years ago).
> - getting 15k signatures could be a challenge, but in the past elections
> we got >11k in half the time in just Catalonia (20% of Spain), so it's a
> reasonable assumption..
>
>
> Legally speaking, PP-ES could also run for all the elections.
> But in practice, it has never been able to do so: didn't have enough
> people to make the lists, didn't have enough signatures. (The only
> exceptions have been some brave local groups that could provide lists and
> signatures, without any kind of help from PP-ES board)
> With >1k members, PP-ES could barely gather 1k signatures for the last
> European elections. Right now, with <100 members, do you really believe it
> would be able to gather 15k?
>
>
> Unfortunately, PP-ES is dead. it was killed by a few trolls who got a bit
> of power power, then managed to kick a lot of members, then climbed into
> higher positions, then caused a bigger exodus of members...
> The internal problems in PP-ES have nothing to do with nationalisms, but
> with a pyramidal hierarchy, and the wrong people in the wrong positions.
>
>
> Finally, there it's never been a nationalism issue. Check the Spanish map,
> and the pirate parties on it: http://confederacionpirata.org
> All the Spanish pirate parties in the  'Confederación Pirata' are working
> together on campaings, and are ok with sharing a single vote in PPI.
>
> All the nationalist/anti-catalanist<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catalanism> conspiranoia is
> a ridiculous attempt to divert attemption from the important issue.
>
>
>
> My 2 cents...
>
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
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> ____________________________________________________
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>
>
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
> International - General Talk pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dario Castañé
> http://www.dario.im | http://twitter.com/im_dario
>
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
> International - General Talk pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> ____________________________________________________
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