[pp.int.general] LQFB: status quo in Germany // was: liquid feedback papers and/or data?

seykron seykron at partidopirata.com.ar
Mon Apr 28 06:40:42 CEST 2014

> > 2. What does "legitimation" means?
> > 3. Why people are or are not participating?
> The #1 question on the agenda of the Italian Pirates ;)
> We had hundreds of members, and they just vanished away.
> Could it possibly be related to the harsh tones in our
> debating platforms? What could possibly be wrong with that?

Who can answer those questions could own the world :P

In our experience (PPAr), online debating is just an aspect of
decision making. We tend to see a proposal as a process: presenting a
proposal and taking a decision on that is just half of the task; the
other half is make it real. And "make it real" implies people getting
involved on that. So the question is: how do you promote participation?

There's no a magic answer, but several PPAr members actively think
about concrete actions. The key point is to build a big and distributed
community of people, promote friendly circles and finally make them feel
engaged to common practices. Of course, we know that "small localized
groups" will not make you win an election, but for sure you will not
get something done without it. We organize pirate events (for instance,
cryptoparties to install privacy software and exchange public keys), we
participate on events related to our principles (free software,
cultural events, protests), we have small groups to work on specific
areas (we call them "ships") and organize weekly meetings either to
work or just to drink a beer. Social insertion[1] is also a good idea
to spread practices. We promote self-development and we teach each
other about related literature and political experiences. In an event,
someone can share out small pieces of paper with specific tasks (i.e.:
"convert a book to markdown", "search an event to visit", "make a
poster"). We trust money to different members to execute specific
activities (even to new members), so people start feeling responsible.

From a political perspective, a combination of principles and practices
is what legitimate decisions. We assume we can manage relatively small
groups (maybe one or two hundred members), small enough to ensure people
speak one to another at some time. From here you need to put effort in
keeping the dynamic alive (I gave you some examples that work pretty
well for us, but it depends on the kind of people involved). The
Statute must reflect the principles, and it must ensure (as much as it
is possible) that the party will not be broken in factions (voting,
for example, breaks up the party very quickly and make people leave
because there is nothing interesting more than "voting something I
hardly understand"). If it works, the group will grow slowly enough to
let you change things when something is not working. In elections time,
campaigns can take local connotation and daily life problems can be
introduced in some existing points of the agenda.

You can figure out that this model has several issues (we're still
facing some of them), but if it works it leads to a elastic and strong
party with people aware of the power of each individual and the group
as a whole.

Of course, you can also choose to get tons of money and make a
traditional political campaign, but it depends on what active members
wants for the party.



[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_insertion

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 17:32:57 +0200
carlo von lynX <lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org> wrote:

> > > Yes, sometimes a software cannot handle the problem. In those
> > > cases you should try to find regulations that describe the
> > > problem and an architecture of justice that enforces the fix to
> > > the problem. Pirate Parties have allowed loudmouthed people to be
> > > loud and put a strain on democratic processes, then let other
> > > loudmouthed people question the democratic processes themselves
> > > because of that.
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 12:18:38PM -0300, seykron wrote:
> > Yes, I think we all agree on that :)
> That would actually be quite an achievement if we agree on the
> instruments and processes not being the source of the problem as
> much as social behaviours and the lack of rule of law.
> > I would like to add that I think it is important to continuously
> > reflect on some key questions about our pirate parties. Democracy is
> > not something you reach and keep safe without continuous effort.
> > Some questions should be answered by each pirate party because it
> > depends on each society (german, italian, french, polish, chilean,
> > argentinian, and other societies have very different idiosyncrasies
> > though we share a lot of thing because we are human beings and we
> > live in a tightly connected world).
> > 
> > Some questions I have in mind:
> > 
> > 1. What does "binding" means?
> In Italy the decisions made in the permanent assembly are binding
> for all pirates and possibly elected representatives. That means
> that is what the party says and does and when they act in the
> name of the pirate movement they must say and do the same.
> > 2. What does "legitimation" means?
> > 3. Why people are or are not participating?
> The #1 question on the agenda of the Italian Pirates ;)
> We had hundreds of members, and they just vanished away.
> Could it possibly be related to the harsh tones in our
> debating platforms? What could possibly be wrong with that?
> > 4. How the party is tied to the community?
> > 5. Is my local party really involved in problems related to the
> > community?
> > 
> > These questions cannot be answered only in one-way. I personally
> > don't think that liquid feedback can improve democracy in the way I
> > think these questions are answered, but at the end of the day it
> > depends on what the community wants: that's the key. Nobody will be
> > forced to participate in top-down mechanisms established by a small
> > group of "thinkers".
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Matías
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

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