[pp.int.general] LQFB: status quo in Germany // was: liquid feedback papers and/or data?

seykron seykron at partidopirata.com.ar
Mon Apr 28 06:50:00 CEST 2014

Just as a summary: for us (PPAr) the problem is the representative
system, so any software or technology built on top of this system will
have the same issues (think about electronic vote, to cite an example)
and will lead to the same discussions. The exit is not "more
engineering", it is more democracy.

In Argentina there is a proverb: "only more democracy can fix
democracy". We're trying to make an experiment of that.


On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 17:32:57 +0200
carlo von lynX <lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org> wrote:

> > > Yes, sometimes a software cannot handle the problem. In those
> > > cases you should try to find regulations that describe the
> > > problem and an architecture of justice that enforces the fix to
> > > the problem. Pirate Parties have allowed loudmouthed people to be
> > > loud and put a strain on democratic processes, then let other
> > > loudmouthed people question the democratic processes themselves
> > > because of that.
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2014 at 12:18:38PM -0300, seykron wrote:
> > Yes, I think we all agree on that :)
> That would actually be quite an achievement if we agree on the
> instruments and processes not being the source of the problem as
> much as social behaviours and the lack of rule of law.
> > I would like to add that I think it is important to continuously
> > reflect on some key questions about our pirate parties. Democracy is
> > not something you reach and keep safe without continuous effort.
> > Some questions should be answered by each pirate party because it
> > depends on each society (german, italian, french, polish, chilean,
> > argentinian, and other societies have very different idiosyncrasies
> > though we share a lot of thing because we are human beings and we
> > live in a tightly connected world).
> > 
> > Some questions I have in mind:
> > 
> > 1. What does "binding" means?
> In Italy the decisions made in the permanent assembly are binding
> for all pirates and possibly elected representatives. That means
> that is what the party says and does and when they act in the
> name of the pirate movement they must say and do the same.
> > 2. What does "legitimation" means?
> > 3. Why people are or are not participating?
> The #1 question on the agenda of the Italian Pirates ;)
> We had hundreds of members, and they just vanished away.
> Could it possibly be related to the harsh tones in our
> debating platforms? What could possibly be wrong with that?
> > 4. How the party is tied to the community?
> > 5. Is my local party really involved in problems related to the
> > community?
> > 
> > These questions cannot be answered only in one-way. I personally
> > don't think that liquid feedback can improve democracy in the way I
> > think these questions are answered, but at the end of the day it
> > depends on what the community wants: that's the key. Nobody will be
> > forced to participate in top-down mechanisms established by a small
> > group of "thinkers".
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Matías
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

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