[pp.int.general] VIlfredo goes to Athens. /era Re: Liquid Democracy - a summary attempt

[seykron]

I think that at this point we mostly agree on some things despite
specific tools:

* Liquid feedback does not solve core problems of representative
  democracy.

* Direct democracy and consensus is a difficult practice and it also
  has its own issues.

* In any case, participation requires engagement from people. Liquid
  feedback platforms do not help on this, but a bad implemented
  consensus process neither.

I created a pad to write a collaborative outcome of this discussion:

https://pad.partidopirata.com.ar/p/LiquidFeedback

I propose to build a strong critic (in form of questions and bullets)
from different perspectives for both liquid feedback and consensus
processes and then send it to our local parties. For me it is a very
valuable reflection that all parties must add into the agenda.

Feel free to modify, add more questions or rewrite what is needed.

Regards,

Matías


On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:27:20 +0200
"Cal." <peppecal at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 28 April 2014 18:58, carlo von lynX <lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org>
> wrote:
> > We tried a consensus-fostering software platform for a bit, it's
> > called "Vilfredo goes to Athens." It adapts a model from a liberal
> > Italian economist to direct democracy.
> 
> It's not "a model" and it wasn't a very long experiment.
> 
> Vilfredo works by iteratively selecting a "Pareto front" among the
> proposals, which is a set of non-dominated proposals. A "dominated"
> proposal is a proposal whose supporters are a strict subset of the
> dominating proposal's ones.
> 
> This way, a Pareto front is, at all times, a set of proposals that
> represent the whole population.
> 
> > Each time a participant does not like a
> > certain proposal the software asks him to rewrite the proposal in
> > such a way that he would like it.
> 
> That only happens to unwilling to cooperate stubborn people.
> 
> > That means a whole lot of work,
> 
> So does democracy. Fighting is inherently simpler.
> 
> > and when
> > all participants have finally settled on something they all find
> > acceptable it probably watered down to some populistic phrase or
> > motto.
> 
> You just can't stop. You just *have* to propagate disinformation.
> 
> Consensus methods are feared by strongly polarized majorities. We get
> it. ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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