[pp.int.general] Anybody checked out placeavote.com?

Tue Jun 3 20:02:03 CEST 2014

Hi Betiel,

I can answer all your questions and save you and other people a lot of
time. For Antonio García (AKA ningunotro) the right and decent way, and in
fact the only way, is his way. And the source for all intelligent thinking
about the Pirate movement is his brains, the very locus from where all
intelligent thinking in the world spreads out. And he has a point here
since, if you think about it, all the intelligent life in the Universe (as
far as we can tell) lives in the same planet as Antonio, and that's a fact.

In Spain we learned this the hard way. I'll tell you how: after a
succession of boards one more incompetent than the one before finally came
the Mother of all boards, the one with Antonio within. I left that board
and took with me my old fashioned conceptions of democracy and
transparency. Not long ago the president also step out from that board. Now
the board is sequestered by its accidental president, Ms. Amparo Peiró, Mr.
Francisco George (a regular of the PP lists) and Antonio himself who's
acting as if he was the speaker of the board. Together they have set up the
blueprint for a new democracy, Antonio's style. First, after the period of
duties of the board expired in December they gave themselves 5 months more
in charge, and then  4 more. They decreed the time and place of the new
General Assembly (usually that was the Assembly prerogative); they closed
all the party email lists (except one, called "tavern", designed for the
less serious issues); they control all the social media, and they will give
no information about the party whatsoever. I'm not making all this up: for
months we have been asking such basic stuff as how many affiliates are in
the party, or whether they are paying the arranged fees, or if there's
money in the Party's bank account, etc,  and no positive answer has ever
come out of their mouths.

But, as you may have supposed, in lieu of positive information, Antonio's
stentorian voice may be heard from above, quite often indeed. The last time
(today) it sounded so beautifully divine that I can't resist the temptation
to reproduce the answer in all his splendour and piratical bombast. When
asked what kind of information was given to the new affiliates, Antonio
replied "Everything will be made clear at the right time and due form so
that it may produce the opportune results for the correct development of
the General Assembly September 13" Who needs democracy and transparency
when you have God himself to tell you from above what is right for you
miserable rat?

And that's, in a nutshell, Antonio's blueprint for the Pirate democracy in
this planet, and beyond. I though you'd like to know,.

best,

Daniel Riaño

2014-06-02 20:38 GMT+02:00 Betiel <betielix at gmail.com>:

> ok, we heard a lot about what you think is a very strong problem. (way to
> much!!!) So, I want to change the angle.
>
> I want to know What solution do you suggest.
>
> You prefer to improve the swarm or change it? If it is improve: How? If it
> is change it: What is for you the best option?
>
> The answer to these questions is important because, until you propose some
> solution/alternative, instead of only complaining, the swarm solution for
> most of us is the better, and we prefer and chose to work towards improving
> it.
>
> Saying is wrong wont change our minds. Take your time to show us a better
> way, and then I can assure you we will listen.
>
> Betiel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2014-06-01 17:28 GMT-03:00 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:
>
>> Both lack of infrastructure and lack of personal capacities are due to
>> the poor sociological level the overall mass dynamics inject into the
>> swarm. When the majotity decides everything, and that majority does not
>> care to inform itself thoroughly before casting a vote but does so
>> following buddy politics, or  low rationality desires, or voting no matter
>> how because what sustains their self-esteem is exercising their right to
>> vote even in the easiest way possible, tossing a coin or throwing dice...
>>
>> ... then what the swarm becomes is an #IDIOCRAZY ;(.
>>
>> When it takes intelligent pirates AGES to get a wrong act reversed, and
>> while they are onto it 10 other wrong and stupid decision stack up...
>> intelligent people give up because remaining coherent becomes impossible.
>>
>> They silently drop out. No need top make an useless fuss out of it.
>>
>> And with each intelligent dropout the black hole of total #IDIOCRAZY
>> cpmes closer for the Pirate Movement.
>>
>> I've been battling the phenomenon inside the Spanish Pirate Party, before
>> I had to take it by the horns at the PPI when I attended the 2012 Prague
>> General Assembly.
>>
>> I'm still being fooled around with by the ignorant members of our pirate
>> community and the few too pragmatic "Profis"...
>>
>> ... and there does not seem to be a general intelligent wish to sort
>> things out.
>>
>>
>> You can't avoid correcting the mistakes if you want to heal...
>>
>>
>> Lets see what tne #aBPT of our Germab brethren broadcasts as a message at
>> the end of this month...
>>
>> ... either #PIRATES or #IDIOCRAZY... you can(t have both.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: pirate.martin at stolze.cc
>> Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 20:49:39 +0200
>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> CC: pp-eu.euroliquid at lists.pp-international.net;
>> ag-liquid-democracy at lists.piratenpartei.de
>> Subject: [pp.int.general] Anybody checked out placeavote.com?
>>
>>
>> 
>> Hi Together,
>> I keep arguing that a lack of infrastructure is actually our biggest
>> challenge. I guess, by now, it is safe to say that we don't actually have
>> the capacity to build something ample ourselves (Liquid Feedback, shitty
>> mailing lists, limesurvey you name it). The way I see it is that we simply
>> don't manage to activate the talent that would be necessary to develop
>> something pioneering. All the good ideas and innovations coupled with our
>> lofty idealism is worth nothing if nobody is pouring them into Java or PHP.
>>
>> The guys at placeavote.com have been gone through the news as they try
>> to shoehorn direct democracy into any form of electoral system by means of
>> levering it out and replacing politicians with proxies that only relay
>> decisions made by the corresponding constituency.
>>
>> Of course implementation, especially in the US, is highly unlikely.
>> However using it at least internally to a certain degree or forking it a
>> little can be a chance for us to move out of the technological middle ages
>> that we are stuck in.
>>
>> It also seems not to be open source (yet?) but I am thinking more along
>> the lines of sweet-talking the guys behind it into working for us as some
>> kind of software consultants, maybe we can flatter them with a bit of the
>> cash that should come our way in form of election refunds?
>>  :)
>>
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
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>> ____________________________________________________
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>>
>
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