[pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?

[Antonio Garcia]

Man, are you looking for stupid excuses.

> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 19:57:26 +0200
> From: zzbbyy at gmail.com
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?
> 
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 18:36:18 +0200
> >> From: zzbbyy at gmail.com
> >> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in
> >> organizing this movement?
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:44 PM, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Jesus, can I talk to someone competent?
> >> >
> >> > Do I really have to spell everything out not to waste six months
> >> > explaining
> >> > the obvious?
> >> >
> >> > Can I take obvious things for obvious, or am I still talking in
> >> > KinderGarten?
> >>
> >> I can see you are very frustrated - but I don't quite understand what
> >> you are referring to - sorry.
> >>
> >> Are you disagreeing with me - or with someone else in this thread?
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I meant the FIRST ruling of the CoA ABOUT Pirates de Catalunya full
> >> > membership, which is the subject WE were talking about. Not the first
> >> > ever
> >> > ruling of that particular class of Court of Arbitration.
> >> >
> >>
> >> OK - I was also talking about this case - so I guess that burst of
> >> frustration was about something else.
> >
> > No, you weren't, damnit...
> 
> Yes I were.
> 
> If CoA rules that Catalonia admittance was invalid - then the whole GA
> that they took part in was invalid and also the CoA election was
> invalid.

Let's NOT skip any step, because you are already LOST trying.

The situation RIGHT NOW... is that we HAVE a Court of Arbitration.
The situation RIGHT NOW... is that we have an issue with the validity of the

http://wiki.pp-international.net/PPI_CoA/PPI_CoA_Ruling_2012-3

On the basis of, accidentally, their fantasy opinion about the interpretation
of the meaning of the word "country" to try to circumvent the fact that the
PPI GA of 2012 had failed to adopt any amendment to allow for more than
one member for any country. But that detail is peanuts.

The REAL failure of that ruling is in:

1) Not aknowledging the real facts, in that the Statutes provide for ONLY ONE
clear path to membership: submitting all the necessary data in due time and
form to the board, AND the member parties getting the information also in due
time to be able to decide on what to vote on each candidature.

Pirates de Catalunya had experienced problems in becoming full member in
2011, and now knew it had to have the statutes modified BEFORE they could 
dream about submitting a candidature. That is why, for the 2012 PPI GA in 
Prague they submitted STATUTES AMENDMENTS aiming at clearing the way...
and NO CANDIDATURE, as a candidature would be useless then anyway.

When the amendments were not treated, neither adopted... it was ALREADY too
late to try anything else... because there was NO FIT in the statutes for anything
else.

But they tried BLACKMAIL anyway, saying a simple motion asking for a vote on the
matter would suffice. Well, that may have been their desperate opinion... but NO 
exception to the regular candidating procedure has ever been described anywhere.

So, no, you can't ask for someone to submit a motion to have a vote improvised on
such matters.

But some on the board of the PPI GA in Prague CHOOSE FRAUDULENTLY to interpret
something thad had been said by the australian remote delegate as if it were that
motion, and use it in a way to deescalate pressure.

I let it happen because we really needed to deescalate pressure, so it was easier to 
play their game then, end the GA without troubles in front of the numerous German 
press present because two regional elections were scheduled in Germany...

... and simply have the outcome NULLIFIED one or two weeks later by the CoA.

Any DECENT one would have done so, instead of growing incredible fantasy and fucking
with the wording of STATUTES articles to cater for childish desires to serve buddy
catalan kiddies.


The PRESENT Court of Arbitration needs only 20 MINUTES to check where things went 
wrong in that 2012-3 ruling, AND NULLIFY it.

That is PERFECTLY within their competences.

Oh, yeah, there is a stupid incident about adopted changes in the Rules of Procedure of 
said Court of Arbitration, and the IDIOT CLAIM that they can apply these NEW rules to the
OLD situations AND their OLD context... but anybody with brains would call such a pretence
BULLSHIT.

A legit reclamation was presented, scrupulously following applicable rules at it's own time...

... and it is about TIME that it STPOS BEING DODGED.

SERIOUSLY.

Whatever OTHER consequences have to follow from all what has developed into a kafkaesque
situation from then...

... shall be the result of other procedures the CoA will have to decide upon when asked about it,
AND NOT BEFORE.

Even if surely, at due time... I will be asking for EACH infraction to be punished according to 
their merits.

 
> Andrew says that this would not result in a loop - but I am not sure -
> I'd like to hear what a lawyer says about this.

There is NO loop. The Court of Arbitration was elected at the 2014 Paris PPI GA...

... it will not get into problems until the validity of that 2014 GA is contested.

Then it might choose to resign if it feels it can not invalidate the GA in which it was elected.

We will have then to organize an PPI GA for the mere purpose of having a VALID CoA elected
to  immediately deal with the last pending bits and restore everything to normal conditions.


> You have also take into account that most people here feel that it is
> now so ancient that it is not important any more. In all kinds of law
> you have expiration clauses - because it does not make sense to dig up
> history in courts.

TRUTH and JUSTICE do not give a damn about how people feel. They operate on LOGIC
and ETHIC.

And IF people ARE Pirates... yjen they do EXACTLY THAT TOO.


If they are NO Pirates... yhen what regrets are there to be had in burning rogue ships?


 		 	   		  
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