[pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?

Fri Jun 6 01:26:12 CEST 2014

Dear Muriel,
Dear Thomas,

"We submitted a request to change our membership and also proposed several alternative statutes changes, both."

Of course, I may have no clue about whatever communication was exchanged between Pirates de Catalunya and the Board of PPI. I have to be reliant on receiving the correct information through the established channels as far as the organization of the PPI General Assembly goes. To decide on memberships, the PPI has a procedure with double deadlines... 4 weeks prior to the GA for the parties to request anything that has to be voted upon by all, AND 2 weeks prior to the GA for the PPI board to forward those requests to all member parties to allow them to make up their mind about what their vote should be.

Two weeks prior to the PPI GA, NOTHING was communicated to any member party concerning any intention at all from the Catalan Pirate Party to apply for a status changement. Not only that, neither did I hear about any complaint by Pirates de Catalunya for having eventually been forgotten erroneously in the communication by the PPI board that mentioned all the others. If any error was comitted... those that had an interest in having it corrected, be it the Board when made aware of it, be it  the party unjustly hindered in its aims... should have SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT as soon as possible.

Instead of that... Pirates de Catalunya did not even follow the usual procedure joining the other candidate parties and presenting itself at the proper moment in the GA.

In fact, they did NOTHING a candidate should have done, and did not complain about not doing nothing. To be precise... they started BLACKMAILING only after it became clear that the statutes amendments they NEEDED IMPERATIVELY to be passed to be able to be a SECOND FULL MEMBER of the PPI from one single state... were NOT to be discussed and voted upon because of lack of time.

You can dig up now ANY epistolar exchange you want between Pirates de Catalunya and the Board of PPI... without those amendments being accepted they do not mean a thing.

Pirates de Catalunya KNEW it could NOT apply for full membership at the 2012 PPI GA because membership matters are discussed with the OLD statutes being upheld, NEVER when the accepted amendments come into force. That is why they did not apply. They settled for a two year approach, 2012 statutes amendments, 2013 full member, ... 2014 European Elections as full member, with the backing of their bastard Pirate Confederation.

It was ONLY when they were made aware that they were going to MISS the goal for the first year... and risked NOT to complete the full process in time to be useful for their bid for the european elections... that they really got pissed off and resorted to PLAIN BLACKMAIL, loosing ANY respect for the General Assembly.

But at that moment... NONE of the possible alternatives had any chance... and they went for the impossible.

Sadly, no statutes amendments... no chance for more than 1 full member per country.
Sadly, no official candidate... no power to the General Assembly to assign them any status at all.

There was NO motion to vote upon, only a misinterpretation of a request for clarification by the australian remote delegation that had trouble following the improvised issue through the wires.

And I let things be so that the PPI GA of 2012 in Prague could end without a SCANDAL that would hurt the possibilities of our German Brethren in two nearby regional elections, because ANY competent Court of Arbitration would have nullified those fraudulent results without much thinking needing to be done.

Needless to say that I am VERY pissed off about the way those German Brethren have been expressing their gratitude afterwards.

Needless to say that I am VERY pissed off about the way the Court of Arbitration choose to show off their utter incompetence with ruling 2012-3.

And after that just too many stupidities have been stacked on top of this by way too many purported Pirates.

It is DAMN CLEAR to ANYONE with a few functioning braincells left that I am the ONLY ONE to have remained LOGICALLY and ETHICALLY coherent throughout the whole of this issue.

Too many "Brethren" just plainly STINK.

And the WHOLE MOVEMENT will stink as long as it does not set the record straight.

The whole press has this issue in their records... and if you do not solve it... the moment their preferred strategy changes from silencing your existence to stacking dirt on you... they won't even have to produce it themselves... you have gently served them everything necessary.

It's plain SUICIDE to ignore this issue and it's sequels.

But, hey... it's YOUR CHOICE. If you want to be stupid at all costs... go for it.

From: muriel at pirata.cat
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 21:53:25 +0200
To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?

Dear Betiel,

I agree with with you that the CoA doings and undoings concern us all. However, I don't think this is really the issue here. This matter has been already thoroughly discussed in the past years several times in this same list. I think the problem starts when you realise that it's not a discussion, but just a monologue. Then most people trying to explain their point of view gets tired of a discussion that they feel useless, and simply stop arguing.

The claim that the submission of Pirates de Catalunya was filled late, is completely
false. Otherwise, the board wouldn't have accepted it... (and I must add) obviously.  :P

We submitted a request to change our membership and also proposed several alternative statutes changes, both. We thought that the statutes were insensitive to the different realities on how pirates want to (or can) organise in each state and thought (think) that every pirate community should be free to organise as they feel it's more efficient (or as their law allows them to). It was not only about us and the complex reality in Spanish politics or how we want to organise, there are countries where it is very difficult to fund a statewide party unless you have first parties in each region, which makes it virtually impossible for pirates in those countries to join the PPI as full members, regardless of how active and successful they are. We wanted to change the statutes to allow more flexibility for everyone, not only for us.

It
 was possible to send the membership submission by email to the board or to fill 
the wiki directly, and we did the first on the 16th of March of 2012 at 13.41 h, within the standard deadline. During the GA we realised that we were not called at any point to present our party in front of the assembly for the voting (although we were doubtful whether they were counting on us to present or not, because we were already a member, so it was only a membership change). When we realised that they were not counting on us, we note it to the board, they realised their mistake and fixed it immediately.

I will gladly answer in private any questions you might have.
Greetings,

         Muriel 

2014-06-05 20:19 GMT+02:00 Betiel <betielix at gmail.com>:

I totally disagree. If the court of arbitration was not working properly, it concerns all of us. Therefore is not a matter for a private conversation.
Betiel

2014-06-05 14:06 GMT-03:00 Andrianos Pappas <adrian.ppgr at gmail.com>:

Wtf, this is all stuff for personal correspondence and talks, not for international lists. 

So if you could all just stfu, and focus on real life things, such as #resetthenet, it'd be awesome. 

On June 5, 2014 7:53:03 PM EEST, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 18:36:18 +0200
> From: zzbbyy at gmail.com
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net

> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Antonio - do you want to work with us in organizing this movement?
> 
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:44 PM, Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Jesus, can I talk to someone competent?
> >
> > Do I really have to spell everything out not to waste six months explaining
> > the obvious?
> >
> > Can I take obvious things for obvious, or am I still talking in

> > KinderGarten?
> 
> I can see you are very frustrated - but I don't quite understand what
> you are referring to - sorry.
> 
> Are you disagreeing with me - or with someone else in this thread?

> 
> >
> > I meant the FIRST ruling of the CoA ABOUT Pirates d
 e
Catalunya full
> > membership, which is the subject WE were talking about. Not the first ever
> > ruling of that particular class of Court of Arbitration.
> >
> 
> OK - I was also talking about this case - so I guess that burst of

> frustration was about something else.

No, you weren't, damnit...

"Right - the Court of Arbitration ruling was wrong.

But in fact the CoA could not rule that the very GA that elected them

is invalid. The only ruling it could logically do is to rule that this
is outside of its competence. And the current one also cannot nullify
the chain of events that lead to its election - because it would also

make itself invalid and thus also the very decision."

That was about the supposition that the CoA can not rule as invalid the 
occasion at which it has been elected because then it would rule itself 
invalid. A very
simplistic line of thought in itself that has however 
nothing to do with the ruling about the catalans.

Be more accurate, more inteligent, more competent. Or let somebody with 
more cualifications handle this.

There is too much really basic stuff you do not seem to understand or
even pay attention to. You are not being a good ambassador for the 
Pirate cause.

> > Thay one Court of Arbitration has proven to be absolutely incompetent, all

> > the way, in even the most trivial of rulings.
> >
> > By the way, the spokesperson for the actual one is not showing much aptitude
> > either, reading his comments:
> >
> > http://samedokan.wordpress.com/2014/05/10/when-pirates-do-prefer-censorship/

> >
> > And I am still kept waiting. Luckily, I reduced possible damage to a minimum
> > as only Julia Reda got 
 a seat
in the European Parliament... results could
> > have been far better if I had worked towards good results rather than
> > against because nobody left me better options.
> 
> So you admit that you are working against pirate parties political success?

You are a very bad craftsman trying to get a confession for the #Pirate #Inquisition :(.

I have already said what I have said, and done what I have done.

> Cheers,
> Z.
> ____________________________________________________

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