[pp.int.general] Swarm management

Sun Mar 2 09:57:50 CET 2014

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I dont think it is possible - or even doable - to synch the different
parties boards. The difference in structure is too big.

What does the catalanien PP wants with a few thousand german messages
each day anyway? (I alone get 300-500 and I'm in no active
topic-oriented group)

I think what you and Dario propose it not a solution.
The problem is - as you stated - communication. It is communication
that is not targeted and commuication that is more ad hominem then
anything else.

A software will not be able to change that from my experience. Take
wikiarguments
http://de.wikiarguments.net/
concentrated dicourse with only points and yes/no.
the 10th question is 3 month old.

intersting also that all questions regarding how to structure the
process (upvote "enemies" points, neutral points, subpoints) each of
these questions considering what the software does not do to make the
process simpler, each question has the result "more complexity".

People want to argue it seems, especially in politics.

Also: as we can see, we all have at least one software which we think
#could# solve this problem. That the problem still exits says, so I
think, 2 points:
- - software (alone) does not help
- - we dont need another one

I see the problem more in motivation and how do we talk to each other
(nice or not nice). Definitely in Germany.

LennStar

Am 01.03.2014 17:50, schrieb Torben Lechner:
> Hi Lisa and others,
> 
> I consider this issue to be very important; good management of
> ressources would cause all of us to overcome this problem that some
> initiatives fail due to not reaching the critical mass. So to keep
> it simple: It would make us much, much stronger.
> 
>> From my point of view we should join forces in order to develop 3
>> systems,
> first of all:
> 
> An international web based system for "work flow and getting things
> done"; so, something like GitHub, but just for coordinating
> political work. You know that I was heavily involved into the
> copywrongs initiative; what I really missed was a point where all
> pirate parties vitally come together; so a point with which you
> effectively reach all pirate parties; it was especially hard to
> reach out to the pirate parties in the UK, Italy, Sweden and
> Cyprus. So, maybe as a first measure it would help, if one works
> towards a change, that all pirate parties synchronize a vital part
> of their message board or mailing list with the sub message boards
> on http://www.pp-international.net/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=76 and
> making their sub message boards there openly available; it's really
> not a good idea to have one's respective message board closed on
> pp-international.net. It also wouldn't harm to synchonize the topic
> sub message boards of pp-international.net like for instance
> "copyright" with all pirate parties respective message boards or
> mailing lists. I guess for reaching this short term aim, it's
> necessary to approach all message board admins of the respective
> pirate parties. But as already indicated in the beginning this is
> just a short term solution; on a bigger time scale we should
> elaborate this.
> 
> 2ndly, we have the same issue like the EU: We don't have one EU
> wide pirate basis, which talks with each other. The aforementioned
> short term solution also would help regarding this issue. The long
> term solution, however, would be something much more fancy than
> this; it would be an international web based discussion system -
> so, a system which is made for all around optimizing discussion
> culture (re-structuring discourse, so that there won't be that
> endless repepititions anymore; working against fragmentation of the
> discourse; sorting discourse not chronologically but by content). I
> know at least one work group within the pirate party, which works
> at this construction site: 
> http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/AG_Meinungsfindungstool - so, if you
> know anyone else within the pirate party who works at developing a
> discussion system, plz send them to this work group ^^ - their sub
> message board:
> https://news.piratenpartei.de/forumdisplay.php?fid=438 ...
> 
> And 3rdly - also long term aim - it would be really good, if we had
> an international web based resolution system; so, something like a
> EU or global LQFB, but just a bit more sophisticated, and
> especially satisfing highest demands regarding democracy,
> pricacy/data protection, accessability for people with less time,
> and interface design... I consider that really not easy to tackle
> this; currently some pirate parties have different web based
> resolution systems, some of them really need an update, and then we
> also have a lot of pirate parties with no such systems. In several
> pirate parties I've seen working groups for the respective web
> based resolution systems - they all have in common, that they don't
> really interact internationally; so also for them it would be a
> good idea to join forces ^^ ... and besides that it obviously needs
> developing work for setting up structures for other pirate parties,
> who don't have the ressources for doing it by their own... maybe it
> needs something like a first aid helping kit for structure issues
> ^^ ...
> 
> So, well... that's my impression of it all ^^ ...
> 
> 
> Greetings, / aka Oliver
> 
> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Von: Lisa <lisa at piratenpartij.nl> 
> Datum: 01.03.2014 10:44:29 An: Pirate Parties International --
> General Talk 	<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net> 
> Betreff: [pp.int.general] Swarm management
> 
> Dear pirates,
> 
> I don't think I've ever really introduced myself, so allow me to
> start there. :)
> 
> My name is Lisa and I'm a volunteer with the dutch Pirate Party, 
> PP-NL. I've taken on the responsibility to be the editor of our
> monthly newsletter and I'm the coordintator of our HRM (or rather:
> managing the swarm) through our taskforce 'Organisation'. I have a
> way with people that allows me to connect relatively easily and I
> usually try to stay away from political debates in order to
> maintain a neutral position, most of the time. Both these things
> allow me to do my job in a relatively uncomplicated fashion,
> allowing me to facilitate in the scaffolding for the dutch swarm to
> grow and thrive on.
> 
> That said, I've also pretty much been the only person doing this
> in our party for the past few months and although I'm a hard worker
> and I don't mind setting things up on my own, I also realize that
> one person can't know it all. I would hate for my inexperience to
> be holding back our party and this is why I'm reaching out to you,
> the international community of pirates.
> 
> I'd like to set up some kind of international group of people
> involved with swarm management, to offer each other advice when
> needed, deliberate about questions we all deal with, share some of
> our experiences and generally learn from each other. I'm sure all
> parties are different in some ways and we'll have fun exploring
> some of the different approaches together as well.
> 
> For this purpose, I'd like to offer hospitality on the Dutch
> party's Mumble server, where we could meet on a somewhat regular
> basis. I'd prefer an interval of once every few months, maybe
> quarterly?
> 
> Would anyone be interested in setting this up with me? And if it's 
> just me that's feeling a little overwhelmed and feels like a derp 
> sometimes while trying to 'herd cats', then would anyone be willing
> to share their experiences with just me?
> 
> To the international coordinators reading this: please forward
> this request to your party's taskforces/people that you think it
> is relevant for. They may either contact me directly or through
> this list.
> 
> 
> Looking forward to hearing from you!
> 
> Kindest regards, Lisa van Oostveen PP-NL
>> ____________________________________________________ Pirate
>> Parties International - General Talk 
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net 
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>
>> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
> International - General Talk 
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net 
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> 
> 

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