[pp.int.general] Invitation PPI Conference Paris 12th/13th of April

Fri Mar 28 16:01:00 CET 2014

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 3/28/2014 10:23 AM, Anouk wrote:
> Which (solid) arguments are there in favour of making it worth it to
> delay this GA 3 or 5 weeks ? (I can't think of any solid/pragmatic
> argument).

Er.. How about
The ability to propose an amendment?
The ability to propose membership?
The ability to get time off work?
The ability to get cheaper travel?

Major points I think.

> Is there not also an obligation to inform yourself (being involved more
> then just trolling ?) on the progress of the PPI ?

Er, no. When it comes to this, the specific, stated obligation is on the
PPI board to make clear, concise, timely announcements. It's actually
one of the very few jobs of the PPI board.

Also, in case you'd forgotten, a BUNCH of us have an election in 8 weeks
time. While we *could* spend our spare time hoping someone bothers to
update the wiki, it'd be a much more effective use of time if, say, any
major, significant changes were, you know, announced?

> You don't have to subscribe to read the wiki is it not ?

Go look at the history page for the event. There was a bunch of stuff
put on it in August. In december the date was changed (aren't you glad
you didn't book based on what was 'on the wiki' before then!). The next
change was on Tuesday.
In fact, anyone that 'followed the wiki' would be under the assumption
that the information on that page was not accurate, given the following
PPI Board minutes entries on the event.

January 7: "We need to start planning soon."
January 21 "Thomas shall contact PP-FR about the current planning on the
french side. We didn't receive any updates since the last meeting."

So, everything on that Wiki page prior to Tuesday was prior to any
planning, according to the board themselves. Why would anyone assume it
to be accurate then?

> 
> To put this short, if there is a fundamental problem/error at the PPI,
> it should be dealt with accordingly. And not by (the accordingly caused)
> incidents (re-)occurring. That is a just weak sophism (lawyers spin-talk
> alike) and shows of little (collective ?) intelligence.

But they do keep reoccurring. And the reason why is the same reason
copyright organisations make false claims, the NSA hoovers up everyone's
personal information, police misconduct is on the rise, anything can be
justified by 'fighting terrorism', politicians are in thrall to the
special interests - there are no consequences. We sigh, tut, and let it
go saying 'don't do it again!'

Your answer is not only not the solution, it's actually one of the major
causes of the problem.

We, as Pirates identify with a specific set of principles. We wrote them
down, codified them as party constitutions and statutes. Our statutes,
an expression of our collective principles, have been broken. I don't
know about you, but I like my principles, I like to stick to them, and
not just abandon them any time something becomes a bit inconvenient.

Also, as a passing thought, this late/no notice 'trick' is quite common
in politics too. Can you guess what kind of laws tend to be passed via
such methods; "too late to change now", "shh, don't tell anyone else
when the vote is" "here's all 1200 pages of the new law, we're voting on
it tomorrow".
Those actually happened. with the UK's Digital Economy Act, one assembly
passing of the French HADOPI law, and the USA PATRIOT act (which
authorises much of the Snowdon revelations)
But it's only common with BAD laws, because good ones can stand public
scrutiny.

In fact, I think we're all pretty much specifically against these kinds
of practices. So, when did they become acceptable to you for pirate
stuff, but not for regular stuff?

Andrew

> 
> Just another opinion,
> A.
> 
> 
> On 28 March 2014 13:42, Thijs Markus <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
> <mailto:thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl>> wrote:
> 
>     Well, there's a price to pay for transparency and informed decision
>     making if you're the in-crowd.
> 
> 
>     On 28.03.2014 13:25, Marco Confalonieri wrote:
> 
>         Il 28/03/2014 12:50, Thijs Markus ha scritto:
> 
> 
>             No offence, but looking at this, wouldn't it be more
>             appropriate to
>             reschedule this GA in some 6 weeks, so it can be done
>             properly? If
>             only because at this point only there is only one known
>             candidate, and
>             I'd like far more than an odd week to inform myself about the
>             alternatives.
> 
> 
>         That would be inconvenient. Some people already bought tickets
>         since the
>         dates and location of the next PPI General Assembly have been
>         available
>         on the PPI wiki for months.
> 
>         --
>         Marco Confalonieri
>         ______________________________________________________
>         Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>         pp.international.general at __lists.pirateweb.net
>         <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>         http://lists.pirateweb.net/__mailman/listinfo/pp.__international.general
>         <http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general>
> 
>     ______________________________________________________
>     Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>     pp.international.general at __lists.pirateweb.net
>     <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
>     http://lists.pirateweb.net/__mailman/listinfo/pp.__international.general
>     <http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> 

- -- 
Andrew Norton
http://ktetch.co.uk
Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTNY6sAAoJECjjuYTW3X5HHMgH/2No47/dbRzzGE2vU0HbD1tS
QAEbev7/H6kjFyCcu3ApXo53LY5YfmdRDZJBHGxn0bv/O3yNvkNSl6VMe6Q0tXRG
luei2jQdAcLPU2e2hfCunYffiAtaLs1xY3Y85CsViSpO/xQnPfYCoqSmC1koZu39
Ya8ikd6R9UWqeBP1hAdy9DOj45lyTUeLHxwqeG1SEFG7rHV+4/ciG+zGJ6i5/w0m
10jnc5vJTDS0FcyaRc96Yq2B4suzejBoFDXFxwTLmS+6z5vFxD+XyfWif7aRou2M
/dsCg4LMUkFoRq93U6+jwjYYm4rcB8VID6VqFTg9Kgy2LQtHUV6YQJ10s7miLLs=
=ibN4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----