[pp.int.general] Invitation PPI Conference Paris 12th/13th of April

[Anouk]

First of all, thank you for your valuable input Andrew (I mean this
although it appears contra-wise, hence this statement).
Read further between the lines:


On 28 March 2014 16:01, Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 3/28/2014 10:23 AM, Anouk wrote:
> > Which (solid) arguments are there in favour of making it worth it to
> > delay this GA 3 or 5 weeks ? (I can't think of any solid/pragmatic
> > argument).
>
> Er.. How about
> The ability to propose an amendment?
> The ability to propose membership?
> The ability to get time off work?
> The ability to get cheaper travel?
>
> Major points I think.
>


Counter question : Does one need and official announcement to start working
on these proposals in advance (also knowing it happens /every/ year at
least) ?
A pretty laid-back attitude is it not ?


> > Is there not also an obligation to inform yourself (being involved more
> > then just trolling ?) on the progress of the PPI ?
>
> Er, no. When it comes to this, the specific, stated obligation is on the
> PPI board to make clear, concise, timely announcements. It's actually
> one of the very few jobs of the PPI board.
>


Point taken, that is a fact.


>
> Also, in case you'd forgotten, a BUNCH of us have an election in 8 weeks
> time. While we *could* spend our spare time hoping someone bothers to
> update the wiki, it'd be a much more effective use of time if, say, any
> major, significant changes were, you know, announced?
>

Two things, one is here in France we also got upcoming elections and the
other thing is that with the election of where this AG would be held it was
pointed out by France that it would be a good reason to have this meeting
in Europe /before/ these elections as a good promotion towards these
elections !!!
Does anyone read the minutes (or annexes) of those meetings ?



>
> > You don't have to subscribe to read the wiki is it not ?
>
> Go look at the history page for the event. There was a bunch of stuff
> put on it in August. In december the date was changed (aren't you glad
> you didn't book based on what was 'on the wiki' before then!). The next
> change was on Tuesday.
> In fact, anyone that 'followed the wiki' would be under the assumption
> that the information on that page was not accurate, given the following
> PPI Board minutes entries on the event.
>
> January 7: "We need to start planning soon."
> January 21 "Thomas shall contact PP-FR about the current planning on the
> french side. We didn't receive any updates since the last meeting."
>
> So, everything on that Wiki page prior to Tuesday was prior to any
> planning, according to the board themselves. Why would anyone assume it
> to be accurate then?
>


When one has a 'mouth' to ask now, why not asking before ?


>
>
> >
> > To put this short, if there is a fundamental problem/error at the PPI,
> > it should be dealt with accordingly. And not by (the accordingly caused)
> > incidents (re-)occurring. That is a just weak sophism (lawyers spin-talk
> > alike) and shows of little (collective ?) intelligence.
>
> But they do keep reoccurring. And the reason why is the same reason
> copyright organisations make false claims, the NSA hoovers up everyone's
> personal information, police misconduct is on the rise, anything can be
> justified by 'fighting terrorism', politicians are in thrall to the
> special interests - there are no consequences. We sigh, tut, and let it
> go saying 'don't do it again!'
>
> Your answer is not only not the solution, it's actually one of the major
> causes of the problem.
>


You are probably not aware of how conscious I am of this problem, is there
not another way of communicating (internationally ?) about this and other
issues ?



> We, as Pirates identify with a specific set of principles. We wrote them
> down, codified them as party constitutions and statutes. Our statutes,
> an expression of our collective principles, have been broken. I don't
> know about you, but I like my principles, I like to stick to them, and
> not just abandon them any time something becomes a bit inconvenient.
>

Principles and ethics, look up (older emails on this list) what I have
tried to advocate about these.
Again when and how can we start this (constructive/alternative/etc.)
initiative ?


>
> Also, as a passing thought, this late/no notice 'trick' is quite common
> in politics too. Can you guess what kind of laws tend to be passed via
> such methods; "too late to change now", "shh, don't tell anyone else
> when the vote is" "here's all 1200 pages of the new law, we're voting on
> it tomorrow".
> Those actually happened. with the UK's Digital Economy Act, one assembly
> passing of the French HADOPI law, and the USA PATRIOT act (which
> authorises much of the Snowdon revelations)
> But it's only common with BAD laws, because good ones can stand public
> scrutiny.
>
> In fact, I think we're all pretty much specifically against these kinds
> of practices. So, when did they become acceptable to you for pirate
> stuff, but not for regular stuff?
>

I pick up the same signals and my problem is that I am a 'softy' political
wise (I already gave up hope in politics 22 years ago and it hasn't
changed, oh sweet ambiguity, why joining the pirates, I guess not all is
logic). As a comparison, I already proposed to 'my' pirate party to
have/start an internal section of opposition. Unfortunately, 'they' are not
ready for this (yet). Could 'we' start one here ?

When 'they' are smart, we got to be smarter, hell that is why it is called
'politics'.
(Don't throw the baby out with the dirty bath-water)

cheers,
Anouk


>
> Andrew
>
> >
> > Just another opinion,
> > A.
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/attachments/20140328/553beca4/attachment.html>