[pp.int.general] This mailing list is a limited and fragile resource

Mon May 26 22:13:38 CEST 2014

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Outstanding!

I just want to add something: I understand you are afraid of vandalism,
but the only way to deal properly with it is to wait until it does
happen and take decisions from real facts. If you build walls, people
that want to participate will stay on the other side too. It is
analogous to security by obscurity: people that really want to make
damage will succeed anyway; people that want to learn and understand
what is behind your walls will be disappointed and will go to another
place.

There are tons of strategies to deal with cyber-vandalism, the
cyberspace community has more than 30 years dealing with it. If you
need help, we have an infrastructure group that can help you with some
ideas.

Regards,

Matías

On Mon, 26 May 2014 15:57:14 -0400
Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com> wrote:

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> On 5/26/2014 3:14 PM, hyazinthe at emailn.de wrote:
> > I second that and add:
> > We all know, that a troll is on this list.
> 
> Yes, and looking at the list, just the one now. Despite being kicked
> out of his local party more than a year ago for this sort of thing
> (as well as attempting to commit fraud using the party name).
> Luckily, he's not posted in just over a month (and only 4 times in
> the last year)
> 
> The issue is a number of people here are mistaken about what a troll
> actually is. A troll is someone who has only one goal, and that's
> disruption. They do absolutely nothing productive, but seek to attack
> others, and do so through personal attacks.
> 
> Someone who points out your flaws, and reminds people of mistakes is
> not a troll.
> Someone who disagrees with you is not a troll
> Someone that raises issues in a less than polite way, may be a bit of
> an asshole, but is not a troll.
> Someone who provides absolutely nothing positive, and only seeks to
> attack, and cause fights for no reason at all, IS A TROLL.
> 
> This willingness to throw around 'troll' for every person someone
> doesn't like is quite shameful. There are a lot in the mainstream who
> consider what we do to 'be a troll' in their nice safe echo-chamber of
> politics.
> 
> Here's the thing about these accusations of 'troll' flying around.
> We're all (mostly, the exception being the aforementioned person) on
> the same side, we agree in principles, if not in applications and
> methods. If you're so thin-skinned that what you see on here wounds
> you so, then you got two options, put on your big-boy pants and
> toughen up, or go find a nice kiddie game to play. Because sure as
> hell, compared to the real cut-and-thrust of actual politics, this
> list is like being in a daycare. If this list is too much for you,
> you've got no chance. Don't believe me? Go try it out there, they'll
> rip you to shreds.
> 
> The story of 'the boy that cried wolf', has a counterpart story. It's
> called 'the commenter that cried troll'. It's kinda short but
> basically boils down to 'the person that cries troll, usually is the
> troll'. You know why? Because an ACTUAL troll is so easy to spot, you
> don't need to shout.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> > Some of you say: "Tolerate him because of freedom of speech" or
> > "you can block him for your own, if you want." But this doesn't
> > solve the problem and the problem has a destructive impact on our
> > working processes. For instance, in the last week before elections
> > I had a sensible working pad to share with you in order to work
> > coordinated and international in it on a very effective approach to
> > push us forward in our election campaign. Thinking of what that
> > troll would do, if he got the link to the pad I decided not to
> > share this link via this mailing list, but to keep it for me and
> > work in it alone. Are circumstances like that worth it to tolerate
> > a troll on a mailing list ? I don't think so.
> > 
> > 
> > Greetings,
> > / aka Oliver
> > 
> > --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> > Von: Zbigniew ?ukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>
> > Datum: 26.05.2014 11:15:09
> > An: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> > <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net> Betreff:
> > [pp.int.general] This mailing list is a limited and fragile resource
> > 
> >> If this mailing list was a river then everybody would agree that we
> >> cannot let anyone flow anything he wishes into it, no questions
> >> asked. But in the case of a communication channel like this list
> >> there is a tendency to think that because the technical bandwidth
> >> of it is so much bigger than we use now - then there is no need to
> >> limit the usage in any way. But the mailing list is useful only as
> >> much as people read the mails that are sent to it - and the amount
> >> of time people can spend on reading is limited.
> >>
> >> Without any rules this mailing list is wasted by trolls and
> >> flamewars just like a river would be wasted by pollution if we had
> >> no rules about that.
> >>
> >> In this community there is an aversion to moderating of mailig
> >> lists because of the fear of censorship - but even having an
> >> automatic rule like 'one person can post only once a day to this
> >> mailing list' would improve dramatically the situation on this
> >> mailing list. Would that be censorship? And this is just one
> >> example - if we are serious about 'doing politics', about
> >> designing rules that govern our societies - then we should first
> >> design rules to govern our mailing list - rules that would avoid
> >> the censorship accusations and that would maintain a high signal
> >> to noise ratio.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Zbigniew ?ukasiak
> >> http://brudnopispirata.pl/
> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> > 
> > 
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> > 
> 
> 
> - -- 
> Andrew Norton
> http://ktetch.co.uk
> Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
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> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

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