[pp.int.general] This mailing list is a limited and fragile resource

Andrew Norton ktetch at gmail.com
Mon May 26 21:57:14 CEST 2014

Hash: SHA1

On 5/26/2014 3:14 PM, hyazinthe at emailn.de wrote:
> I second that and add:
> We all know, that a troll is on this list.

Yes, and looking at the list, just the one now. Despite being kicked out
of his local party more than a year ago for this sort of thing (as well
as attempting to commit fraud using the party name). Luckily, he's not
posted in just over a month (and only 4 times in the last year)

The issue is a number of people here are mistaken about what a troll
actually is. A troll is someone who has only one goal, and that's
disruption. They do absolutely nothing productive, but seek to attack
others, and do so through personal attacks.

Someone who points out your flaws, and reminds people of mistakes is not
a troll.
Someone who disagrees with you is not a troll
Someone that raises issues in a less than polite way, may be a bit of an
asshole, but is not a troll.
Someone who provides absolutely nothing positive, and only seeks to
attack, and cause fights for no reason at all, IS A TROLL.

This willingness to throw around 'troll' for every person someone
doesn't like is quite shameful. There are a lot in the mainstream who
consider what we do to 'be a troll' in their nice safe echo-chamber of

Here's the thing about these accusations of 'troll' flying around. We're
all (mostly, the exception being the aforementioned person) on the same
side, we agree in principles, if not in applications and methods.
If you're so thin-skinned that what you see on here wounds you so, then
you got two options, put on your big-boy pants and toughen up, or go
find a nice kiddie game to play. Because sure as hell, compared to the
real cut-and-thrust of actual politics, this list is like being in a
daycare. If this list is too much for you, you've got no chance. Don't
believe me? Go try it out there, they'll rip you to shreds.

The story of 'the boy that cried wolf', has a counterpart story. It's
called 'the commenter that cried troll'. It's kinda short but basically
boils down to 'the person that cries troll, usually is the troll'. You
know why? Because an ACTUAL troll is so easy to spot, you don't need to


> Some of you say: "Tolerate him because of freedom of speech" or "you can block him for your own, if you want."
> But this doesn't solve the problem and the problem has a destructive impact on our working processes.
> For instance, in the last week before elections I had a sensible working pad to share with you in order to
> work coordinated and international in it on a very effective approach to push us forward in our election campaign.
> Thinking of what that troll would do, if he got the link to the pad I decided not to share this link via this mailing list,
> but to keep it for me and work in it alone.
> Are circumstances like that worth it to tolerate a troll on a mailing list ? I don't think so.
> Greetings,
> / aka Oliver
> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: Zbigniew ?ukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>
> Datum: 26.05.2014 11:15:09
> An: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk 	<pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Betreff: [pp.int.general] This mailing list is a limited and fragile resource
>> If this mailing list was a river then everybody would agree that we
>> cannot let anyone flow anything he wishes into it, no questions asked.
>> But in the case of a communication channel like this list there is a
>> tendency to think that because the technical bandwidth of it is so
>> much bigger than we use now - then there is no need to limit the usage
>> in any way. But the mailing list is useful only as much as people read
>> the mails that are sent to it - and the amount of time people can
>> spend on reading is limited.
>> Without any rules this mailing list is wasted by trolls and flamewars
>> just like a river would be wasted by pollution if we had no rules
>> about that.
>> In this community there is an aversion to moderating of mailig lists
>> because of the fear of censorship - but even having an automatic rule
>> like 'one person can post only once a day to this mailing list' would
>> improve dramatically the situation on this mailing list. Would that be
>> censorship? And this is just one example - if we are serious about
>> 'doing politics', about designing rules that govern our societies -
>> then we should first design rules to govern our mailing list - rules
>> that would avoid the censorship accusations and that would maintain a
>> high signal to noise ratio.
>> --
>> Zbigniew ?ukasiak
>> http://brudnopispirata.pl/
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general

- -- 
Andrew Norton
Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
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