[pp.int.general] Recent events involving PPI
otrosmundos at gmail.com
Sat Mar 7 10:42:54 CET 2015
Burocracy is a bullshit in that organization.
We should debate.. or prepare complex actions at international level... not
trying to know what is fine or what is wrong with sone kind of members
"elected" by necesity but without real world functions except those from
PPI needs a Reboot and forget it's a party. PPI is not a party... is only a
organization for helping a movement to develop. A trademark. And it is
really unclear and stupid that has to have any mandatory functions against
other parties from the movement.
El 07/03/2015 09:03, "Zbigniew Łukasiak" <zzbbyy at gmail.com> escribió:
> I have the feeling that PPI is now beyond repair. With all this 'you
> cannot resign without sending us a registered letter' and then
> inviting us to donate for buying the stamps for that registered letter
> that the PP-AU does not want to send - it has become a Ministry of
> Silly Procedures (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w).
> But I still think that the discussions here do have some importance -
> as whatever will be the replacement for PPI it'll need to avoid the
> same mistakes. And Andrew is very eloquent and precise in nailing down
> these problems and that is valuable. Even though he is apparently not
> very good in persuading people.
> Zbigniew Łukasiak
> On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 12:07 AM, Jens Stomber
> <jens.stomber at piratenpartei.de> wrote:
> > Hi Andrew,
> > there are three things that you can do regarding PPI:
> > 1. love it
> > 2. change it
> > 3. leave it
> > Please make a decision and act accordingly. Do you represent any of PPI´s
> > members at the moment? Do you take any responsibilities in PPI? if not,
> > stop arguing with Thomas and Gregory. Trolling is not a solution if you
> > get enough support for your arguments.
> > The pirate movement has unfortunately moved into a negative trend
> > seems to be the only exception). Hitting the PPI board aside of the
> > processes (GA, board meetings, motions, etc.) will even harm us more.
> > keep calm and constructive and stop this shitstorm!
> > --
> > Jens Stomber - Pirate Party Germany
> > http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Benutzer:ZombB
> > mobile: +49-151-54828237 \o\ zrtp: zombb at ostel.co
> > e-mail: jens.stomber at piratenpartei.de /o/ key id: 0x6951B4FA
> > fingerprint: D331 9041 7DCB 4779 C0D1 FCA0 7EDE 42DB 6951 B4FA
> > jabber: zombb at jabber.ccc.de \o\ twitter: @ZombBi
> > councillor of the European Pirate Party /o/ https://europeanpirates.eu/
> > coordinator squad nsa-scandal \o\ http://is.gd/stopnsa
> > Am Freitag, 6. März 2015, 17:51:26 schrieb Andrew Norton:
> >> On 3/6/2015 5:04 PM, Thomas Gaul wrote:
> >> > Hi Andrew!
> >> >
> >> > Your are an artist. A great one! So YMMD!
> >> >
> >> > And sorry for laughing aloud about your derailing tonight.
> >> You call it derailing - many of us call it "rational debate on the facts
> >> concerning the activities a group that purports to speak for us all"
> >> If you don't like being called out on shit, then don't do shitty things.
> >> > Or using your wording from today on a different channel:
> >> >
> >> > " if SWeden and iceland leave, I think ppi will be finished
> >> > they're two 'big' parties (one the founder, the other the only one in
> >> > national parliament on its own terms)"
> >> >
> >> > Your intention is obvious. Bye bye!
> >> Yes, my intention IS obvious, it's never been anything but. My intention
> >> is, and always has been to make PPI best achieve it's goals. At present,
> >> I think EVERYONE can see it's not.
> >> You seem to think that the Board = PPI, and therefore if you're against
> >> the Board, you're against PPI. I wouldn't have an issue if you went
> >> about things COMPETENTLY, but instead it's all selfishly. PURE
> >> Dunning-kruger.
> >> What other 'intent' do you ascribe? That I'm somehow using my wily
> >> influence to infiltrate and subvert the PPI? As the PPUK's international
> >> coordinator said when Gregory made those claims against me a short time
> >> ago, I'm not that persuasive., and I didn't need to be. Every member of
> >> the UK Board gets the leaders lists, and I think the party executive did
> >> too. I think it's ok to say now that there was only one dissenting voice
> >> out of all of them for leaving, and that includes many who have dealt
> >> personally with you. The lone dissenter voted no because they didn't
> >> think the specifics of the proposal matches the referenced data, but
> >> they did have significant questions over recent PPI Board activities.
> >> I didn't do anything except propose the vote, I didn't have to. You, as
> >> a board, did it far better than any outsider possibly could.
> >> And yes, I know you're on #ppi.
> >> > Thanks anyway for you help to PPI before it had been founded. My
> filter is
> >> > active again on this specific mailing list.
> >> >
> >> > (Get a life would be the appropriate saying - no I don't say it.)
> >> >
> >> > I wish you all the best in life! LLAP
> >> >
> >> > Thomas
> >> > (being here on my own - which is allowed for you as you stated but
> not for
> >> > others)
> >> Oh, you're more than welcome to say things 'on your own behalf'. You
> >> don't get the ability to pick and choose between being PPI 'chief admin
> >> officer', and PP-DE representative to PPI though, because the statutes
> >> specifically state you can't. The wording is about as clear as it's
> >> possible to be. So either you know that, and don't care, in which case
> >> you're not exactly a suitable person to hold such a role; or you have
> >> difficulty understanding such a concept in which case you're not
> >> competent to fulfil the role.
> >> I have to admit, I really did think it was the former, but as time goes
> >> on, evidence is mounting that it's the latter.
> >> As for me, I understood the intent behind the rule. You can't represent
> >> the international movement as a whole AND a national/regional movement
> >> to that international group.
> >> Even if there is no actual bias, it gives the impression of bias to the
> >> other members. Conversely, the state party will be less likely to get a
> >> report that may be critical, because it's unlikely they will criticize
> >> themself.
> >> It's a lose-lose all around, and it doesn't matter even if there is no
> >> bias, just the implication or appearance of bias can be as detrimental.
> >> Especially in an organisation whose founding principles is supposed to
> >> be against that.
> >> In fact I understood it so well, that when I did take over PPI, the
> >> first thing I did was resign my position with USPP, because I didn't
> >> want to give the impression that USPP activities would influence any
> >> actions.
> >> So the better question is this - why is it so important for both you,
> >> and Gregory, to retain your positions as PP-DE's international
> >> coordinators?
> >> Doubt we'll get any answer to that though.
> >> --
> >> Andrew Norton
> >> http://ktetch.co.uk
> >> Tel: +1(352)6-KTETCH [+1-352-658-3824]
> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> Zbigniew Lukasiak
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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