[pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and actually do something?

[Zbigniew Łukasiak]

Identity and shared values/culture - this is the corner stone for any
movement - agreed.
There is some work already done in this area - see for example
http://blog.pirates-without-borders.org/pirate-codex/ - this is of
course very little, but mention it for the record.

I don't think that we could invent a shared culture - it will grow
when we do stuff together - and reflect upon this. This needs to be
done in parallel - do things together and build shared values -
because it is the actions that give the concrete material to attach
our thinking to, to reflect upon - and the thinking will give us ways
to improve our actions.

This probably is material for a whole new discussion thread.

Z.


On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Thomas Blechschmidt
<thomas.blechschmidt at piratenpartei-bayern.de> wrote:
> OK, Markus,
>
> THX for that answer. I pick that up, because in my eyes it shows, that we
> have a problem in common:
>
> We are focused on topics. That is a fact in Germania as well as in Bavaria.
> Why is that a problem?
>
> Because topics are Challenges and not solutions. So, if a heterogenic group
> of persons take care about a political topic and they do not have a at least
> pretty similar interpretation of political items, values, philosophies, or
> let us say the basics, and they bring in the political culture and the
> socially programmed behavior of their personality, that means they all will
> work on the same topic with different methods and will expect everybody else
> to do that in the same way.
>
> Will that work? I doubt it.
>
> And here I see the first issue for PPi to do. Create a common identity among
> international pirates. Kick out anything, what does not have a significant
> acceptance. Take care that tools are not going to be rotten by personal
> conflicts.
>
> The personal affectivity of any member in a political group, willing to make
> a change, is absolutely not of interest. The challenge is to run into a hard
> work process to find out, what the members have in common and to take
> consequences, if one realizes, that he does not fit in the group or the
> group does not fit for him.
>
> The missionary attitude to persuade other people about one's own ideology is
> a dead end. It leads to nowhere. In the best case it brings up the idea to
> turn around and set one's own ideology on the street to find an new, common
> ideology among pirates.
>
> The error begins, when ideology becomes dogmatic. To do everything by a
> certain "Book of rules" shows the mentality of a follower. It is one thing
> to neglect leadership and to live a pretty anarchic political life, but the
> consequence is, that there will be no evolution. Followers don't walk
> straight ahead and don't lead people. The secret ist, to balance out
> leadership with obeying without blaming followers or leaders.
>
> What I tried to make clear: Before we go to take care about political
> topics, we should find out, which emotional, intellectual, philosophical and
> political basics we share. Because that is, what unites us. Common topics
> don't do that.
>
> Take an example on Varoufakis blog about his interpretation of his
> selfdescription as radical and abnormous Marxist. And crosscheck the
> reaction on this especially on German language blogs. If Varoufakis is a
> Marxist, I'm the pope. Really.
>
> But he shows a reflection on Marxism, not even similar to Marxism. He really
> locates the basic political issues "Liberty" (as a value) and "rationality"
> (as criteria for legitimacy) in Marxism and the Marxism itself as ideology
> of the political "Leftists". That makes me think, that he either does not
> know, that "Liberty" as a value is the central basic value of Liberalism,
> expressed an well articulated in John Lockes oeuvre and "rationality" as
> criteria for legitimacy is central item of the "époque of enlightenment",
> when Rousseau and Descartes described their view of a democratic society,
> Newton, Lasalle, Hume and Voltaire worked on their scientific and poetic
> fields to explain the world besides simple believing in God and his
> creativity.
>
> I wonder whether we find that common ideological basis. The experience here
> in Bavaria and Germany shows, that it is not possible to form a powerful and
> creative movement just along common topics. Especially we pirates should be
> aware, that topics are no intellectual property. Because we know. That
> intellectual property in reality does not exist. The only thing, that might
> have a right to exist, is that the developer of an idea benefits from it
> during his lifetime. And this only can rely on settled law. After his death,
> this right extinct. There is no reason for prolongation, neither for his
> children nor for any company.
>
> OK, enough for today. Let's see, if something comes out of this. As pirates
> we can create a international movement, and we can create a international
> party as well. With direct, physical members. We do not have to arrange an
> organization according to national laws just because no international
> parliament exists.
>
> regards
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
>>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>Von: pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net
>>[mailto:pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net] Im Auftrag
>>von thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
>>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. März 2015 16:49
>>An: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>>Betreff: Re: [pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and
>>actually do something?
>>
>>There are quite a number of topics on which we should collaborate
>>internationally, I'd say.
>>
>>For example, in the dutch pirate a group recently started working on
>>finance/economy monetary systems (fiat systems, cryptocurrencies, gold
>>standard etc). I would not be surprised if other pirate parties have or
>>had similar groups. A lot of things on this topic are global (IMF,
>>global banks) or at least in the EU europe-wide (ECB).
>>
>>To my mind an obvious purpose of PPI would be to link up these sort of
>>national groups. At the very least they can share one another's research
>>and opinion to advance their own. And a bit of international feedback to
>>one another would help heaps in keeping the national groups active and
>>moving on.
>>
>>The parallel national re-invention of the wheel is one of the things
>>where PPI has a role to play.
>>____________________________________________________
>>Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general



-- 
Zbigniew Lukasiak
http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/