[pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and actually do something?

[Galileo Galilei]

Totally agree :)

2015-03-11 22:25 GMT+01:00 Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>:

> Identity and shared values/culture - this is the corner stone for any
> movement - agreed.
> There is some work already done in this area - see for example
> http://blog.pirates-without-borders.org/pirate-codex/ - this is of
> course very little, but mention it for the record.
>
> I don't think that we could invent a shared culture - it will grow
> when we do stuff together - and reflect upon this. This needs to be
> done in parallel - do things together and build shared values -
> because it is the actions that give the concrete material to attach
> our thinking to, to reflect upon - and the thinking will give us ways
> to improve our actions.
>
> This probably is material for a whole new discussion thread.
>
> Z.
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Thomas Blechschmidt
> <thomas.blechschmidt at piratenpartei-bayern.de> wrote:
> > OK, Markus,
> >
> > THX for that answer. I pick that up, because in my eyes it shows, that we
> > have a problem in common:
> >
> > We are focused on topics. That is a fact in Germania as well as in
> Bavaria.
> > Why is that a problem?
> >
> > Because topics are Challenges and not solutions. So, if a heterogenic
> group
> > of persons take care about a political topic and they do not have a at
> least
> > pretty similar interpretation of political items, values, philosophies,
> or
> > let us say the basics, and they bring in the political culture and the
> > socially programmed behavior of their personality, that means they all
> will
> > work on the same topic with different methods and will expect everybody
> else
> > to do that in the same way.
> >
> > Will that work? I doubt it.
> >
> > And here I see the first issue for PPi to do. Create a common identity
> among
> > international pirates. Kick out anything, what does not have a
> significant
> > acceptance. Take care that tools are not going to be rotten by personal
> > conflicts.
> >
> > The personal affectivity of any member in a political group, willing to
> make
> > a change, is absolutely not of interest. The challenge is to run into a
> hard
> > work process to find out, what the members have in common and to take
> > consequences, if one realizes, that he does not fit in the group or the
> > group does not fit for him.
> >
> > The missionary attitude to persuade other people about one's own
> ideology is
> > a dead end. It leads to nowhere. In the best case it brings up the idea
> to
> > turn around and set one's own ideology on the street to find an new,
> common
> > ideology among pirates.
> >
> > The error begins, when ideology becomes dogmatic. To do everything by a
> > certain "Book of rules" shows the mentality of a follower. It is one
> thing
> > to neglect leadership and to live a pretty anarchic political life, but
> the
> > consequence is, that there will be no evolution. Followers don't walk
> > straight ahead and don't lead people. The secret ist, to balance out
> > leadership with obeying without blaming followers or leaders.
> >
> > What I tried to make clear: Before we go to take care about political
> > topics, we should find out, which emotional, intellectual, philosophical
> and
> > political basics we share. Because that is, what unites us. Common topics
> > don't do that.
> >
> > Take an example on Varoufakis blog about his interpretation of his
> > selfdescription as radical and abnormous Marxist. And crosscheck the
> > reaction on this especially on German language blogs. If Varoufakis is a
> > Marxist, I'm the pope. Really.
> >
> > But he shows a reflection on Marxism, not even similar to Marxism. He
> really
> > locates the basic political issues "Liberty" (as a value) and
> "rationality"
> > (as criteria for legitimacy) in Marxism and the Marxism itself as
> ideology
> > of the political "Leftists". That makes me think, that he either does not
> > know, that "Liberty" as a value is the central basic value of Liberalism,
> > expressed an well articulated in John Lockes oeuvre and "rationality" as
> > criteria for legitimacy is central item of the "époque of enlightenment",
> > when Rousseau and Descartes described their view of a democratic society,
> > Newton, Lasalle, Hume and Voltaire worked on their scientific and poetic
> > fields to explain the world besides simple believing in God and his
> > creativity.
> >
> > I wonder whether we find that common ideological basis. The experience
> here
> > in Bavaria and Germany shows, that it is not possible to form a powerful
> and
> > creative movement just along common topics. Especially we pirates should
> be
> > aware, that topics are no intellectual property. Because we know. That
> > intellectual property in reality does not exist. The only thing, that
> might
> > have a right to exist, is that the developer of an idea benefits from it
> > during his lifetime. And this only can rely on settled law. After his
> death,
> > this right extinct. There is no reason for prolongation, neither for his
> > children nor for any company.
> >
> > OK, enough for today. Let's see, if something comes out of this. As
> pirates
> > we can create a international movement, and we can create a international
> > party as well. With direct, physical members. We do not have to arrange
> an
> > organization according to national laws just because no international
> > parliament exists.
> >
> > regards
> >
> > Thomas
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >>Von: pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net
> >>[mailto:pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net] Im Auftrag
> >>von thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
> >>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. März 2015 16:49
> >>An: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> >>Betreff: Re: [pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and
> >>actually do something?
> >>
> >>There are quite a number of topics on which we should collaborate
> >>internationally, I'd say.
> >>
> >>For example, in the dutch pirate a group recently started working on
> >>finance/economy monetary systems (fiat systems, cryptocurrencies, gold
> >>standard etc). I would not be surprised if other pirate parties have or
> >>had similar groups. A lot of things on this topic are global (IMF,
> >>global banks) or at least in the EU europe-wide (ECB).
> >>
> >>To my mind an obvious purpose of PPI would be to link up these sort of
> >>national groups. At the very least they can share one another's research
> >>and opinion to advance their own. And a bit of international feedback to
> >>one another would help heaps in keeping the national groups active and
> >>moving on.
> >>
> >>The parallel national re-invention of the wheel is one of the things
> >>where PPI has a role to play.
> >>____________________________________________________
> >>Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >>pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >>http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
> --
> Zbigniew Lukasiak
> http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
> http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>



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