[pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and actually do something?
thomas.blechschmidt at piratenpartei-bayern.de
Sat Mar 14 23:25:11 CET 2015
I don't see any significant interest for my thoughts on this platform.
Writing something down just to fill storage in the wiki does not make sense.
Have a god time
>Von: pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net
>[mailto:pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net] Im Auftrag von
>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. März 2015 22:25
>An: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>Betreff: Re: [pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and actually
>Identity and shared values/culture - this is the corner stone for any
>movement - agreed.
>There is some work already done in this area - see for example
>http://blog.pirates-without-borders.org/pirate-codex/ - this is of course
>very little, but mention it for the record.
>I don't think that we could invent a shared culture - it will grow when we do
>stuff together - and reflect upon this. This needs to be done in parallel -
>do things together and build shared values - because it is the actions that
>give the concrete material to attach our thinking to, to reflect upon - and
>the thinking will give us ways to improve our actions.
>This probably is material for a whole new discussion thread.
>On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 8:35 PM, Thomas Blechschmidt
><thomas.blechschmidt at piratenpartei-bayern.de> wrote:
>> OK, Markus,
>> THX for that answer. I pick that up, because in my eyes it shows, that
>> we have a problem in common:
>> We are focused on topics. That is a fact in Germania as well as in Bavaria.
>> Why is that a problem?
>> Because topics are Challenges and not solutions. So, if a heterogenic
>> group of persons take care about a political topic and they do not
>> have a at least pretty similar interpretation of political items,
>> values, philosophies, or let us say the basics, and they bring in the
>> political culture and the socially programmed behavior of their
>> personality, that means they all will work on the same topic with
>> different methods and will expect everybody else to do that in the same
>> Will that work? I doubt it.
>> And here I see the first issue for PPi to do. Create a common identity
>> among international pirates. Kick out anything, what does not have a
>> significant acceptance. Take care that tools are not going to be
>> rotten by personal conflicts.
>> The personal affectivity of any member in a political group, willing
>> to make a change, is absolutely not of interest. The challenge is to
>> run into a hard work process to find out, what the members have in
>> common and to take consequences, if one realizes, that he does not fit
>> in the group or the group does not fit for him.
>> The missionary attitude to persuade other people about one's own
>> ideology is a dead end. It leads to nowhere. In the best case it
>> brings up the idea to turn around and set one's own ideology on the
>> street to find an new, common ideology among pirates.
>> The error begins, when ideology becomes dogmatic. To do everything by
>> a certain "Book of rules" shows the mentality of a follower. It is one
>> thing to neglect leadership and to live a pretty anarchic political
>> life, but the consequence is, that there will be no evolution.
>> Followers don't walk straight ahead and don't lead people. The secret
>> ist, to balance out leadership with obeying without blaming followers or
>> What I tried to make clear: Before we go to take care about political
>> topics, we should find out, which emotional, intellectual,
>> philosophical and political basics we share. Because that is, what
>> unites us. Common topics don't do that.
>> Take an example on Varoufakis blog about his interpretation of his
>> selfdescription as radical and abnormous Marxist. And crosscheck the
>> reaction on this especially on German language blogs. If Varoufakis is
>> a Marxist, I'm the pope. Really.
>> But he shows a reflection on Marxism, not even similar to Marxism. He
>> really locates the basic political issues "Liberty" (as a value) and
>> (as criteria for legitimacy) in Marxism and the Marxism itself as
>> ideology of the political "Leftists". That makes me think, that he
>> either does not know, that "Liberty" as a value is the central basic
>> value of Liberalism, expressed an well articulated in John Lockes
>> oeuvre and "rationality" as criteria for legitimacy is central item of
>> the "époque of enlightenment", when Rousseau and Descartes described
>> their view of a democratic society, Newton, Lasalle, Hume and Voltaire
>> worked on their scientific and poetic fields to explain the world
>> besides simple believing in God and his creativity.
>> I wonder whether we find that common ideological basis. The experience
>> here in Bavaria and Germany shows, that it is not possible to form a
>> powerful and creative movement just along common topics. Especially we
>> pirates should be aware, that topics are no intellectual property.
>> Because we know. That intellectual property in reality does not exist.
>> The only thing, that might have a right to exist, is that the
>> developer of an idea benefits from it during his lifetime. And this
>> only can rely on settled law. After his death, this right extinct.
>> There is no reason for prolongation, neither for his children nor for any
>> OK, enough for today. Let's see, if something comes out of this. As
>> pirates we can create a international movement, and we can create a
>> international party as well. With direct, physical members. We do not
>> have to arrange an organization according to national laws just
>> because no international parliament exists.
>>>Von: pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>[mailto:pp.international.general-bounces at lists.pirateweb.net] Im
>>>Auftrag von thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
>>>Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. März 2015 16:49
>>>An: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
>>>Betreff: Re: [pp.int.general] Don't you think we should stand up and
>>>actually do something?
>>>There are quite a number of topics on which we should collaborate
>>>internationally, I'd say.
>>>For example, in the dutch pirate a group recently started working on
>>>finance/economy monetary systems (fiat systems, cryptocurrencies, gold
>>>standard etc). I would not be surprised if other pirate parties have
>>>or had similar groups. A lot of things on this topic are global (IMF,
>>>global banks) or at least in the EU europe-wide (ECB).
>>>To my mind an obvious purpose of PPI would be to link up these sort of
>>>national groups. At the very least they can share one another's
>>>research and opinion to advance their own. And a bit of international
>>>feedback to one another would help heaps in keeping the national
>>>groups active and moving on.
>>>The parallel national re-invention of the wheel is one of the things
>>>where PPI has a role to play.
>>>Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>>pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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