[pp.int.general] Communication Plan

[Ray Jenson]

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 1:52 PM, carlo von lynX <lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org
> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 01:22:52PM -0600, Ray Jenson wrote:
> > As a serious response to Zbigniew Łukasiak, please allow me to propose
> the
> > following:
> >
>
>
> Please don't propose proven dysfunctional social strategies.
> Try to google "don't feed the trolls" - you'll find dozens of
> blogs and even papers disproving its efficacy. Not one that
> has provided evidence in favor.
>

In point of fact, trolling is often a sign of mental illness.

No efficacy in any case.

Moderation is weak.



>
> > with something that seems more acceptable. Given that this is not a
> verbal
> > forum, and that all subjects can be accessed and discussed openly, it
> > shouldn't require hierarchical mayhem to consider serious proposals.
>
> Again, consult those documents. None have been able to work out a
> solution that doesn't involve the word moderation. Please be scientific
> and take failed 1968 ideology to the attic.
>


You claim to have secured my failure, yet you do nothing to propose a good
solution.

Perhaps you are merely trolling?



>
> > However, a consensus in the majority should determine support. If it's
>
> How do you measure a consensus on a mailing list?
>
> > close, discussion might clear it up or it might not, but in any case,
> > tabling something that might be useful in the future is harmful.
>
> "tabling"? What is tabling and what does it take to happen?
>


Google is your friend. You might try looking up the term "consensus
process".



>
> > 2. The educational systems are geared to favor the wealthy, the
> politically
> > connected, and those being groomed for such things in the future. They
> are
> > operated by government, for government aims, within a government-approved
> > structure. Thus, correct and understandable grammar may not be possible
> for
> > everyone. We need to encourage these things, for certain, and help to
> > improve it through education. But we should understand just how atrocious
> > the system actually is before we bitch too loudly.
>
> This is entirely off-topic, right? Nobody is going to moderate anyone
> for speling or problems grammar.
>

People do. The term "grammar nazi" is common.

I find the whole line of reasoning to be off-topic, truly.



>
> > 3. I'm opposed to this. I can filter out or include whatever rubbish I
> want
>
> Yes it is frequent that those that have no experience in the field of
> sociology are ideologically against measures that help social co-existence.
>
> > to. And occasionally, the trolls actually spark an idea with their
>
> If they can act decently, they can still spark ideas.
>


Decency has nothing to do with it. I've had people openly attacking me give
me a solution to something else entirely without meaning to.

Decency is what we should feed.



>
> > always rebel against it until they become the older generations, and
>
> They should rebel on political issues, not by hitting below the belt.
>
> > If you delay the emails from going back out, you weaken the system and
> open
> > up a vulnerability.
>
> Yeah, nettime-l is super vulnerable.
>

More like a social weakness, rather than a technical one.

The computer merely conveys it. The problem isn't with the computer, or the
software. The problem is in how we, as human beings, handles it.



>
> > The only solution is to grow thicker skin.
>
> That is an ideological statement which has been proven wrong over and over.
>

Yet you don't propose a superior one.



>
> > This means we simply have to tolerate what is protected as free speech,
>
> This is a false application of the notion of free speech.
> It's poisonous false interpretation has caused the crisis of the
> pirate movement.
>

Indecency is not protected by free speech. Trolling, however, often is.
This is a matter of law.

The crisis isn't in giving the public a voice; the crisis is in our
inability to listen in spite of it.

"Thicker skin" works just fine. Look at the two main US Presidential
candidates as a prime example. And look at any Presidential race since the
1780s.

The crisis is because we're assholes to each other, not because the trolls
are doing anything in particular.



>
> > Mahatma Gandhi's words come to mind: "First they ignore you, then they
> > laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." (No, Trump didn't
> > originate that, in spite of what he thinks.)
>
> First they let you speak freely, then they moderate you, then you
> fail to contribute anything useful while the others get work done.
> You try to get angry at everyone, but since noone hears your anger
> you only have a choice of acting civil or be gone.
>

Yes, that's exactly what a Pirate stands for... not. You're being a
hypocrite, here.

But that's a good descriptor of what's happened so far.

Congratulations, you've just re-iterated what someone from the MAFIAA told
me almost 10 years ago, almost verbatim: "You only have a choice to be
civil, or be gone."

I was being civil when I told them that they were greedy, stupid, and evil
drunkards who failed to listen to the very people they claim to be
providing a service to. Those were the kindest words I could use.

So go ahead: propose a solution that's better.

Move, or be silent. But in your silence, know that those who move are more
likely to survive.
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