[pp.int.general] GA: Membership Requests

[Jay Emerson]

Wow....I now remember why I never involve myself in these emails.

Bye.

On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 1:42 PM, carlo von lynX <lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org
> wrote:

> Thank you both for your insights.
>
> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:04:36PM -0400, Jay Emerson wrote:
> > Here you go Carlos, I attached it to this email.
>
> I am quite amazed by the artistic value of this constitutional
> manifesto that you send us in place of legal statutes. The
> formatting makes it a not so easy read. The repetition of Article
> 7 indicates that the document hasn't met the eyes of a lawyer yet.
> Also the general absence of legalese, which makes it artistic, but
> not very clear for the purposes of jurisdiction or construction of
> a political party.
>
> Title 2 with the party structure starts on page 8. Again as with
> the other candidates there is no dedicated implementation of inner
> justice. The "Legal" power is described as being an expert that
> interacts with legislational bodies, not with issues of infighting.
>
> The statutes suggest two key roles, and administrative and an
> operations officer. The distinction is just in these words, so it
> isn't really very clear who decides on which issues.
>
> The statutes mention the existence of "members," but now how
> they enter or leave the party.
>
> It mentions the existence of "wiki, forums and chat channels",
> but without giving them a structural clear role or who is
> allowed to do their administration with the implied powers of
> moderation and control.
>
> It is specified that "veto consensus vote" is applied in election of
> people into the various roles, but not who is entitled to vote.
>
> The specified voting method is vulnerable to a simple denial attack:
> anyone can impose their candidate by vetoing all other candidates.
> Given two attackers of this kind, the party is deadlocked.
>
> Worse even, the voting system is declared to be anonymous, thus
> making it impossible to trace who the attackers are.
>
> The design of the party suffers from the classic problems of
> trusting people to be good rather than ensuring they will. This
> is essentially contrary to the philosophy of democracy which
> distrusts all people in whichever role and limits the range of
> damage they can make. So IMHO the voting method is incompatible
> with the declaration of being in full support of separation of
> powers. The document essentially tries to walk two different
> and incompatible philosophical paths at the same time, democracy
> and the belief in the goodness of men, which is why I consider it
> more artistic than legal.
>
> Article 3 mentions the existence of "meetings" although members
> have not yet been defined. Members may be ejected from meetings,
> but it isn't specified by who nor who they can appeal to. The
> Administrator is then granted the privilege to expel members.
> Litigation outside of meetings (in the forum for example) is
> not considered.
>
> Article 5 declares that a democratic process must be used, but
> it doesn't say how the democratic process works. That is the
> intention of statutes! Just saying people have to be nice has
> never worked in human history to ensure they will be nice.
>
> That totals ten major flaws in your legal architecture.
>
> Jay, this document is beautiful, but it shows that you have no
> clue on how to make a political party. By proclaiming democracy
> without actually defining it, your document does not IMHO describe
> neither a functional nor an actually democratic organization.
> Maybe you should team up with people that know that part of the
> job?
>
> Also, if you believe so much in democracy, why did you take the
> initiative on the quite interesting VISA issue before holding a
> meeting to ensure anybody else would agree with you?
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>



-- 
Jay Emerson
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