[pp.int.general] My thoughts at present

Wed Nov 2 14:40:47 CET 2016

Thanks, James and Carlo. Really worthwhile spending a few minutes on your
thoughts. Truly.

On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 at 13:22 carlo von lynX <lynX at pirate.my.buttharp.org>
wrote:

> On Tue, Nov 01, 2016 at 09:19:47AM -0400, James O'Keefe wrote:
> > I see robots as just another form of capital, and the question becomes
> what
> > happens if a larger and larger portion of production only requires
> capital
> > and raw materials and not labor? You really cannot divorce this process
> > from the 40 year march of neoliberalism and the increase in power of
> > capital over labor.
>
> Nice thought. Thx.
>
> > Personally, I find the belief that people should get a lump sum to care
> for
> > all of their needs (including health care and education) and leave them
> to
> > the failings of the market for key areas like health care is a step
> > backward.  I would rather quality universal single payer health care
> before
> > a basic income, but then I live in the US.
>
> The idea that UBI can provide for health care is profoundly wrong.
> UBI is not designed to handle ethically legitimate spikes in need.
> I think I discussed this in my posts mentioned beforehand, and I
> think none of the Pirate Parties have promoted such injust and
> unethical Milton Friedman style models of UBI. If that is the only
> UBI you have heard of until now, disinformation and manipulation
> is having its way!
>
> On 10/26/2016 12:21 AM, Paul Tidwell wrote:
> > I am enjoying your owning of Milton Friedman and the neoliberal
> > ideologues. In particular because I signed up For Grantcoin and am
> > already receiving it but i'm trying to figure out how to get it set up
> > and people talk about how a UBI would be inflationary and would "erase"
> > all the benefits via the inflation mechanism but this is a really
> >  really dumb view of economics. One of the key problems I have with Econ
> > right now is most of the market that's out there as well as voting
> > public still essentially believes that Currency derives it's value from
> > it's scarcity as a currency and that's the only thing that generates the
> > actual value of the currency itself.  So essentially the Quantity theory
> > money is getting in the way and since most of the public uncritically
> > accepting the quantity theory of money they're voting as if it's true.
>
> I think legislative regulation is a lot more powerful than physical
> quantity. The only thing that hurts regulation is globalization, and
> that is a political problem: the limited ability of humanity to agree
> on common ethical and thus economical standards. It's a sociological
> problem and worldwide liquid democracy could be an experimental way
> to address it. Produce a platform that credibly and representatively
> deliberates for worldwide humanity. The credibility would come from
> the quality of the output which I would expect to be mind-bogglingly
> good as past experience has showed me.
>
> >
> http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2010/07/quantity-theory-of-money-critique.html
>
> Excellent. So people have been expressing judgments making wrong
> assumptions on the foundational knowledge. That's a pattern on a
> lot of topics.
>
> > But I would go further in that the "neoliberal" view that you're
> > criticizing here:  http://my.pages.de/outcomunisten
> >
> > It basically says that it would "Delete the benefit to the poor" by
> > causing inflation which seems to be what Milton Friedman's calculations
> > suggest that on balance inflation would end up yielding no benefit to
> > the poor because prices would just rise proportional to the
> > unconditional money that was now in the system.
>
> If that was accurate, then Hartz IV would have failed.
> The German economy should have gone completely bonkers.
> Instead government just adapts it each year. No big deal.
>
> > 1. It's already in the system now. And in particular Cryptocurrency has
> > a way of interacting with the main economy, It may take a few hoops to
> > jump through but grantcoin and other cryptocurrencies can eventually be
> > exchanged back into the dollar. So we already have ONE cryptocurrency
> > offering a universal basic income and there will probably be more to
> > come over time.
>
> How can that work if the wealthy cannot be obliged to participate?
> Or are you thinking of a cryptocurrency which is obligatory for all of
> humanity?
>
> I presume that unregulated forms of exchange cannot provide for any
> ethical guarantees, that's why I promote taler.net over any blockchain
> stuff, but you can try to convince me otherwise.
>
> > 2. It treats inflation as the biggest enemy in society and to the
> > economy and to the market which ??? Why?  People say inflation hurts the
> > poor but the people saying this are ignoring the fact that it hurts the
> > Banks and Creditors far more. People who LEND money are harmed FAR more
> > by it because it screws up their  returns by insuring that what their
> > loans get paid back with is now worth less.
>
> Yes, I too see inflation as a tool to reduce inequality, albeit an
> insufficient one given the absurd levels of inequality we have reached.
>
> > 3. Inflation isn't the biggest problem out there.   In fact right now it
> > isn't much of a problem at all. Unemployment as well as underemployment
> > and employees who are overqualified for their positions are a mcuh
> > bigger problem at present.
>
> It's like the hype against taxes. Taxes should serve the poor and middle
> class and get back a fair share from the super-rich, yet the utter
> stupidity of comparing taxes to robbery catches on and drives all
> sorts of uneducated people into supporting political moves for more
> inequality. Their anger is manipulated into driving themselves even
> deeper into misery. The incapacity of people of acting in their own
> interest is impressive and a solid threat to the survival of humanity
> on the planet.
>
>
> --
>   E-mail is public! Talk to me in private using encryption:
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>
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