[pp.int.general] [pp-eu.coordinators] [pp-eu] [PP-EU.programme] [PIRATES-Council-Meeting-2017] Fwd: Re: [pp-eu.council] Request for a council meeting - Art. 14 (7) Statutes PPEU - Prague, Nov. 18./19., 2017

Mon Oct 16 13:30:23 CEST 2017

Dear all,

TL; DR version at the end.

The current board has not reached an agreement on how to handle this
request, so I am writing my personal opinion only, and I don't represent in
any way the board.

I fully understand the frustration that motivates this initiative; however
I would urge everyone not to support any shortcuts that we might regret in
the future.

To the board's defense, its members are not voluntarily stuck with it.
There have been multiple attempts to organize an online council meeting
[1][2][3]; the first ones failed due to not enough council members
registering in order to satisfy the quorum. The last one stalled because
unfortunately, the software platform that was proposed by the board, did
not satisfy certain requirements set by the council. The last one is
technically still in progress, though IMHO it is clear that we will have to
declare it unsuccessful and end it.

Nonetheless, as well meaning the board has been, in my view we don't have
enough active members remaining in it, or with enough motivation, to
organize further council meetings, or other meaningful initiatives. Clearly
we need a way to move past the current situation.

That said, we don't want to debate a few years from now which way of action
or which council meeting was "the least illegitimate". I don't see how that
is conductive for the future of PPEU.

It is valid for council members to request and/or propose the organization
of a council meeting, however please don't rest the legitimacy of that
meeting on a board decision that hasn't actually happened. I would suggest
that at the very least you let the remaining board members discuss this and
come to a conclusion about it. And if things have become so bad, that the
council has to take a decision without the board, then at least consult the
statutes for a legitimate way forward (I don't think 6 council members can
force everyone in a meeting in short notice; at least consult the rest of
the council!).

But in the end, I'm sure we can find a way with higher agreement than what
is proposed right now.

TL; DR: calm the fuck down, put the pitchforks down, let's find a
legitimate way to hold a council meeting.

Pirate regards,
Tony

[1] https://europeanpirateparty.eu/invitation-to-the-second-coun
cil-meeting-2015/
<https://l.messenger.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Feuropeanpirateparty.eu%2Finvitation-to-the-second-council-meeting-2015%2F&h=ATML7_CNwvZzfF5124yf9-5jsnNcbDHA5_RLAyxQwLEWQjK6BmnYkrSxNpf-YQxcI3UDW5CBnjxHcLM7cw1W0rAC8RPkcue87Z3AauONhUdpRJf_O_mAJjmmIheVENDZ8lk>
[2] https://europeanpirateparty.eu/european-pirate-party-council
-meeting-2016/
<https://l.messenger.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Feuropeanpirateparty.eu%2Feuropean-pirate-party-council-meeting-2016%2F&h=ATML7_CNwvZzfF5124yf9-5jsnNcbDHA5_RLAyxQwLEWQjK6BmnYkrSxNpf-YQxcI3UDW5CBnjxHcLM7cw1W0rAC8RPkcue87Z3AauONhUdpRJf_O_mAJjmmIheVENDZ8lk>
[3] https://europeanpirateparty.eu/invitation-to-the-european-pi
rate-party-first-council-meeting-of-2017/
<https://l.messenger.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Feuropeanpirateparty.eu%2Finvitation-to-the-european-pirate-party-first-council-meeting-of-2017%2F&h=ATML7_CNwvZzfF5124yf9-5jsnNcbDHA5_RLAyxQwLEWQjK6BmnYkrSxNpf-YQxcI3UDW5CBnjxHcLM7cw1W0rAC8RPkcue87Z3AauONhUdpRJf_O_mAJjmmIheVENDZ8lk>

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 12:32 AM, Thomas Gaul <thomas.gaul at piratenpartei.de>
wrote:

> Dear Patrick Schiffer, Chairman of PPDE,
>
> as you should know, the Delegates of PPDE to PPEU had anonymously
> decided to follow this way. And it is their sole task to care about
> PPEU. It had been delegated to these delegates. If you are not able to
> follow the rules within PPDE, I am sorry for this.
>
> All this is public knowledge and you yourself attended the last meeting
> taking care about this subject. See all the minutes from the German
> international team. You are part of it.
>
> The invite was initiated by 6 Parties. All members of PPEU, the board of
> PPEU not taken action for any kind of work, esp. no reelection.
>
> Best regards
>
> Thomas Gaul
>
> P.S.: It is not me. It is six parties, PPDE is four Delegates. The board
> named them.
>
>
>
> Am 15.10.2017 um 23:23 schrieb Patrick Schiffer:
> > Dear board of the PPEU,
> > Dear Pirates,
> >
> > please take into your consideration, that the Board of the German Pirate
> > Party did not make any decision concerning the request for a council
> > meeting under Art. 14 (7) from 10th october of our international
> > coordinator Thomas Gaul. I feel surprised, that the board was not
> > informed about this initiative and I hope, we'll find a solution in any
> > way possible.
> >
> > We support the PPEU board in any decision possible and look forward into
> > working with you in the future.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Patrick Schiffer
> > Chairman
> > Pirate Party Germany
> >
> > Am 15.10.2017 um 22:59 schrieb Thomas Gaul:
> >> Dear Mattias!
> >>
> >> PPDE considers the invitation as valid! A member of the board finally
> >> has had the guts to stand with PPEU and did invite! You did not.
> >>
> >> Think those Parties who supported the intitial mail are behind it.
> >>
> >> I reject you saying "an indivuell".
> >>
> >> It is Parties behind it!!!
> >>
> >> You might claim otherwise as for having no meeting at all.
> >>
> >> Otherwise, when would you be willing to act as a board member for having
> >> (re-)elections to the board? Or shall it be postponed indefinitely?
> >>
> >> The necessary support by PPEU members is given. A board member has
> >> invited. You are nothing but an inactive board member trying to prevent
> >> reelection.
> >>
> >> And I bet, other parties will step in as well. A new board is overdue.
> >> You have lost! Finally, after a long time nothing had happend.
> >>
> >> You are invited to be a candidate again!
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>
> >> Thomas Gaul
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 15.10.2017 um 22:15 schrieb mattias.bjarnemalm at piratpartiet.se:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> please be advised that Mikuláš Peksa does not speak on behalf of the
> >>> board of the European Pirate party in this matter. There has been no
> >>> board decision to call a meeting in Prague on 18th and 19th of November
> >>> 2017, and mr Peksa has not been delegated the authority to call such a
> >>> meeting.
> >>>
> >>> This action of his was a rogue action taken by an individual. I do not
> >>> doubt that he acted in good faith, believing that he was entitled to
> >>> call a meeting without the consent or even discussion with the rest of
> >>> the board, but as the matter stand this is clearly in violation of the
> >>> statues of the association.
> >>>
> >>> Any meeting taking place there should not be recogniced as a council
> >>> meeting of the association formed in Brussels in 2014.
> >>>
> >>> Please allow the board to get back to you all regarding how the
> >>> association will proceed.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Mattias Bjärnemalm
> >>> Board member
> >>> European Pirate Party
> >>>
> >>> On 2017-10-15 22:03, Communication channel for the European Pirates
> >>> Council Meeting 2017 wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Please forward this to all available channels to other member and non
> >>>> member parties! And if possible, add the invite on your pages and
> >>>> promote it internally!
> >>>>
> >>>> Thank you!
> >>>>
> >>>> On behalf of all the parties being involved in the invite.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thomas Gaul
> >>>> Delegate to PPEU for PPDE
> >>>>
> >>>> -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --------
> >>>> Betreff: Re: [pp-eu.council] Request for a council meeting - Art. 14
> (7)
> >>>> Statutes PPEU - Prague, Nov. 18./19., 2017
> >>>> Datum: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 21:32:27 +0200
> >>>> Von: Mikuláš Peksa <mikulas.peksa at pirati.cz>
> >>>> Antwort an: Council of the European Pirate Party
> >>>> <pp-eu.council at lists.pp-international.net>
> >>>> An: Council of the European Pirate Party
> >>>> <pp-eu.council at lists.pp-international.net>,
> >>>> pp-eu.board at lists.pp-international.net
> >>>>
> >>>> Dear council members,
> >>>>
> >>>> Respecting the article 16 (6) of the Statues, on behalf of the Board,
> I
> >>>> hereby invite you to a council meeting.
> >>>> The council meeting will be held on the 18th and 19th of November 2017
> >>>> in Prague at Česká pirátská strana, Řehořova 943/19, Praha 3, Czech
> >>>> Republik.
> >>>>
> >>>> We, all the Board members, deeply regret that article 14 (7) of the
> >>>> Statues was violated as the Council meeting did not take place during
> >>>> 2016. Please support this very last opportunity to organise a meeting
> in
> >>>> 2017.
> >>>>
> >>>> Looking forward to see you in Prague!
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Mikuláš Peksa
> >>>> Board member
> >>>> European Pirate Party
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>> Od: Thomas Gaul <thomas.gaul at piratenpartei.de> Komu: PPEU Board <
> pp-eu.board at lists.pp-international.net>, Datum: 10.10.2017 22:46 Předmět:
> [pp-eu.council] Request for a council meeting - Art. 14 (7) Dear Board of
> PPEU, On behalf of the following Member Parties of PPEU and its delegates
> the undersigned requests a council meeting according to article 14 (7) of
> the PPEU - to be held on the 18th and 19th of November 2017 in Prague at
> Česká pirátská strana, Řehořova 943/19, Praha 3, Czech Republik: Pirate
> Party of France Pirate Party of Switzerland Pirate Party of Czech Republik
> Pirate Party of Norway Pirate Party of Germany Pirate Party of Austria
> Additionally we propose the agenda provided to you in the annex to this
> letter. The mentioned place is already reserved for PPEU. Please send out
> your invitation by 15.10.2017 at the latest. For your information PPDE and
> other parties will take care for further formalities. On behalf of the
> above mentioned parties. Best regar
> >>>  ds
> >>> Thomas Gaul, Council member for PPDE Jens Stomber, Council member for
> PPDE Alexander Spies, Council member for PPDE Gregory Engels, Council
> member for PPDE =========================================== Sample
> Invitation, can be used as one to one copy: Invitation to the PPEU Council
> Meeting November 2017 Dear European Pirates, We would like to invite you to
> the next council meeting of PPEU. This meeting will be held in Prague on
> November 18th and 19th 2017 at Česká pirátská strana, Řehořova 943/19,
> Praha 3, Czech Republik The council meeting is the equivalent of the
> General Assembly for the organization, and at the meeting we will among
> other things elect a new board, decide on the admittance of observer
> members and have a discussion on the future direction for our organization.
> A draft agenda you will find in the annex of this Email. Other pirates and
> interested persons are also very welcome to join as guests at the Council
> meeting. Socialising events for Friday, 17th an
> >>>  d
> >>> Saturday 18th will be announced in time. Registration To register for
> the conference please send an email to international at piratenpartei.de and
> put the organisers in CC (ppeuorg at pp-international.net). In the email you
> should include name, if you are a delegate from a party. If you will attend
> remotely (via mumble) please inform as as you will have to hand in another
> document to very your attendence. This will be taken care of later.
> Proposing candidates for the board and putting forth proposals to the
> Council meeting All ordinary members can put forth candidates to the board
> of the European Pirate Party and submit items for the agenda of the Council
> meeting. Please note that the deadline for board nominations and proposals
> for statutes changes are 18th of October 2017. Best regards XXY, Board of
> PPEU ------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------ Annex: Proposed Agenda:
> 17.11.2017 - FRIDAY (Inoffical part): t.b.a.
> >>> 18.11.2017 - SATURDAY (6 hours): 1. Opening of the meeting (13:00) a.
> Appoint 1 chairperson, 2 secretaries, 2 vote counters b. Establishing
> quorum (13:10) c. Adopt rules of procedure & agenda (13:15) 2. Membership
> fee requests (delay, partial or total relievance) (13:20) 3. New members
> presentation & admission a. Ordinary Member : b. Observer Member : 4.
> Report be the Board of PPEU 5. Discussion & vote - Future of the
> organisation 6. Discussion & vote - Statutes amendments Proposal 1: Move to
> Luxembourg - Link Proposal 2: More to Luxembourg plus more - Link
> 19.11.2017 - SUNDAY - Remaining items from Saturday, if there are any 7.
> Approval of accounts and reports 8. Board elections 9. Other items Agenda
> http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=council-agenda_2017 [1] Candidates:
> http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=3rd_council_meeting_2017:nominations [2]
> -- internationaler Koordinator - international Coordinator Piratenpartei
> Deutschland - Pirate Party of Germany Pflugstraße 9a, D-10115
> >>>  Berlin,
> >>> Germany Vorstand: Patrick Schiffer (Vorsitzender), Carsten Sawosch
> (Stellvertretender Vorsitzender), Lothar Krauß (Schatzmeister), Kristos
> Thingilouthis (Politischer Geschäftsführer), Steffen Heuer
> (Stellvertretender Schatzmeister), Thomas Knoblich (Amtierender
> Generalsekretär), Alexander Niedermeier (Stellvertretender politischer
> Geschäftsführer) ---------- _______________________________________________
> pp-eu.council mailing list pp-eu.council at lists.pp-international.net
> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.council [3]
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> pp-eu.council mailing list
> >>>> pp-eu.council at lists.pp-international.net
> >>>> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.council [3]
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> internationaler Koordinator - international Coordinator
> >>>> Piratenpartei Deutschland - Pirate Party of Germany
> >>>>
> >>>> Pflugstraße 9a, D-10115 Berlin, Germany
> >>>>
> >>>> Vorstand: Patrick Schiffer (Vorsitzender), Carsten Sawosch
> >>>> (Stellvertretender Vorsitzender), Lothar Krauß (Schatzmeister),
> Kristos
> >>>> Thingilouthis (Politischer Geschäftsführer), Steffen Heuer
> >>>> (Stellvertretender Schatzmeister), Thomas Knoblich (Amtierender
> >>>> Generalsekretär), Alexander Niedermeier (Stellvertretender politischer
> >>>> Geschäftsführer)
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> PIRATES-Council-Meeting-2017 mailing list
> >>>> PIRATES-Council-Meeting-2017 at lists.pp-international.net
> >>>> https://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/
> pirates-council-meeting-2017 [4]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Links:
> >>> ------
> >>> [1] http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=council-agenda_2017
> >>> [2]
> >>> http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=3rd_council_meeting_2017:nominations
> >>> [3] http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.council
> >>> [4]
> >>> https://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/
> pirates-council-meeting-2017
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> PP-EU.Programme mailing list
> >>> PP-EU.Programme at lists.pp-international.net
> >>> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.programme
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> internationaler Koordinator - international Coordinator
> Piratenpartei Deutschland - Pirate Party of Germany
>
>
> Pflugstraße 9a, D-10115 Berlin, Germany
>
> Vorstand: Patrick Schiffer (Vorsitzender), Carsten Sawosch
> (Stellvertretender Vorsitzender), Lothar Krauß (Schatzmeister), Kristos
> Thingilouthis (Politischer Geschäftsführer), Steffen Heuer
> (Stellvertretender Schatzmeister), Thomas Knoblich (Amtierender
> Generalsekretär), Alexander Niedermeier (Stellvertretender politischer
> Geschäftsführer)
> _______________________________________________
> pp-eu.coordinators mailing list
> pp-eu.coordinators at lists.pp-international.net
> http://lists.pp-international.net/listinfo/pp-eu.coordinators
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/attachments/20171016/6c8636b3/attachment-0001.html>