[pp.int.general] PPI like an International Party (the first?)Putting the flag over the globe

[Andrew Norton]

Ah, ok, I kinda get what you mean. I think, however, that we're acting as much like that already as is possible, or maybe even desirable. Americans, for one, are highly patriotic. One of the BIGGEST stories here in the past week or two, was that presidential candidate Barac Obama, has desided not to wear a US flag lapel pin. It ranked up there with 'is what the CIA is doing torture, or just 'intense interrogation'', and other such things. As I'm also British, I was brought up in a country, and household where internationalism was frowned upon. Heavy opposition to the euro, and to even being in the EU from a lot of people I know. In these situations, a global party will work against things.

Additionally, there is more the problem of legalities. In the US, for instance, there really isn't any formal 'national party', as parties are formed at the state level, hence Ray's comments about trying to get registered in Utah. Different things work in different ways, in different countries, something I'm still trying hard to get my head around (and i've lived here for over 4 1/2 years, and worked in the US off and on since 99)

One of your points that really stands out, however, is funds. Here's how things are - in the UK, you have, IIRC, a 15,000GBP limit per candidate, you get certain things given to you. 15k isn't that hard to raise. Having excess funds is not required. On the other hand, despite being around for over a year, we still can't even accept donations as yet, due to american campaign finance laws. I believe we have to form a seperate 'corporation' as it were, called a Political Action committee, to deal with funding, and with the patriot act, it's not even that easy to open a bank account. no bank account, no PAC, no PAc, no funding, no funding, you can't even register a party, let alone run, and I remind you that congressional election races (thats for a 2 year term as a congressional representative) is expected to cost something like $600,000 if you're a safe incumbant. if you're after a contested open seat, expect $1.5Million easily. Senate costs can be even higher, and both hillary clinton, and obama both pulled in over $30Million each in fundraising the last 3 months alone, and there's still a year until the presidential election, they're both running for the democratic candidate nomination to run for president. Campaign finance laws are so convaluted, ad restrictive, and so on, that finding would't help in the US either.

Right now, this group is good as a mutual support and information association. One where we can embrace our differences and use that to be even better, rather than trying to encompass us all under one big umbrella. ESpecially as the current status of what is, essentially, our core issues, changes from country to country. On issues that concern us all, or at least many of us, there's nothing stopping the issuance of joint press releases, as we did recently with the Frattini press release.

I would however, like to stress the importance of communication between us all. get jabber or skype, pop into the ppi IRC, or even some different nation's channels. talk, get to know each other, and we'll become more effective. There was a thread a month or two back called 'jabber of the pirates', to add to that, my skype id is ktetch, as is my IRC nick. Don't be afraid to talk.

I just wish I could meet all y'all in Berlin.

Andrew
PPUS

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 02:39:40 -0300, "machado at sociologia.de" <machado at sociologia.de> wrote:
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> Andrew,
> 
> Sorry, false word, latin influence... : )
> 
> I mean PPI could accept global membership/signatures. It has just a
> symbolic value, but important to spread out the message that PPI is
> international movement.
> 
> I think each party could act like an arm of PPI, obviously adapted to
> local reality. As you know, when we are talking about ?intelectual
> property?, privacy, network neutrality, freedom and ?security?, we are
> referring to global level issues. The Corporations work internationally
> but without control of civil society, the situation of WIPO is not very
> different. Face it, I think we need to fortify the network and get more
> visibility in media in order to improve the citizen participation. They
> could ignore the PPs now, but not in the future... The most important is
> the possibility to have international articulation strategies and build
> an alignment of policies. I mean we have to talk the same language,like
> just a unique party (or one confederation).
> 
> The propose is basically:
> 
> - - The PPI's could have a International board
> - - and start a campaign to get international membership;
> - - start to work *officially* as umbrella of the national parties
> - - use it, if possible, to get founds for the party/movement
> - - make a website as reference (in an international level) of the fight
> against IP abuse and related dirties initiatives of governments and
> corporations. (Which references we have now? Some NGOs, like EFF. But we
> could do much more.) Using the creativity we could improve the range of
> actuation of PPI and the scale and scope of mobilization.
> - - The most important: to get a sympathy of people and use this positive
> ?marketing? (argh) to help the national parties.
> 
> I think many people will be part of PPI but not of the PP local. It is
> not bad, because there is a potencial for the future.
> 
> In conclusion, in my point of view, PPI could actuate symbolically as
> international party. In an realistic view, all the local PPs are working
> practically like a social movement in the moment. But the situation
> could change if we articulate our action in an international level.
> 
> It cannot help PPUS now, but maybe it could help all the local PPs in
> the future.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jorge
> 
> 
> Andrew Norton escreveu:
>> I for one am not sure what you mean - could you elaborate more, please.
> what do you mean by "accept filiations like a national party."
>>
>> Andrew
>> PPUS
>>
>> On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 00:07:42 -0300, "machado at sociologia.de"
> <machado at sociologia.de> wrote:
>> Hi pirates,
>>
>> Considering the case of USA, I think other countries will have a similar
>> problem.
>>
>> Maybe will sounds crazy what I will say, I suggest that the PP
>> International could work and accept filiations like a national party.
>> Its mean that PPI could be the first International party of the world!
>> (if I am not wrong). In my point of view, it's a very good way to get
>> the media attention and so help the promotion of the national parties as
>> well as to fortify our global union, whose cause is international.
>>
>> It's also sounds very humanistic (without irony) in times of "war
>> against the terrorism" and in a scenario of serious threats to freedom
>> at a global level. I think we will get a sympathy of a lot of people
>> around the wourld. Possibility, many people will filliate firstly in PPI
>> than the local Pirate Party - that should be estructured before.
>>
>> Any citzen of the planet could become a member of PPI! We could have as
>> symbol a pirate flag over the Earth globe. I think the pirates did not
>> recognize borders. ; )
>>
>> All the Best,
>>
>> Jorge
>> PP Brazil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ray Jenson escreveu:
>>>>> Jens Seipenbusch wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Ray,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we have similar problems here in germany, i can only give you the
>> advice
>>>>>> to use the web like blogs, bulletin boards, community sites etc. to
>>>>>> advertise it.
>>>>> Been doing that to no avail.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, if possible, get some supporters to check out shopping
>>>>>> centers or other crowded places.
>>>>> People here seem to be afraid of representing us in a state which is
>>>>> (and has always been) dominated by one of the two major parties here.
>>>>> It's as though we're conspiring to mutiny or something.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe you can contact local groups of linux users or other
>> tech-oriented
>>>>>> clubs, which could bring you several signatures at once.
>>>>> Okay, this just got very long. Apologies to everyone for the length
> I'm
>>>>> about to write. I'm about to explain everything to date.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tried that, too, and got an icy response from them when they had
> their
>>>>> convention in September. It's as though I was asking them if I could
>>>>> come in and advertise Microsoft or something, they simply didn't take
> me
>>>>> seriously. Maybe they thought I was asking them for money. I don't
> know,
>>>>> I can't think of anything else.
>>>>>
>>>>> In addition, when I tried to get a permit to hold a rally (as I'm
>>>>> required to by law because we're not an official political party yet
> and
>>>>> not recognized by Utah), I was told I had to get USD$25 million in
>>>>> insurance (which would only have cost me the equivalent of about a
>>>>> thousand euro for the one day I wanted to do things). I was also told
>>>>> that I wouldn't be allowed to bring in any kind of public address
> unless
>>>>> I also insured it separately, and I certainly wouldn't be permitted
> to
>>>>> give any kind of public address. I would be allowed to merely stand
>>>>> there quietly until people came up and talked to me. If I did
> anything
>>>>> otherwise, they would revoke the permit and the police would ask me
> to
>>>>> leave.
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried to post a paper on the public bulletin board in the town
> where I
>>>>> live (an actual corkboard where I could have a paper), and they told
> me
>>>>> that I couldn't post anything related to politics (though they didn't
>>>>> appear to have a problem with the mayor's re-election campaign
> notice).
>>>>>
>>>>> When I very first started doing this, I was volunteering at a
> homeless
>>>>> shelter, and I recruited a homeless man to assist me. While out
>>>>> collecting signatures for the petition for statehood, he was pelted
> by
>>>>> apples. Walking through the neighborhood, I was not pelted the first
> few
>>>>> times, until I started actively trying to collect signatures at which
>>>>> time I was likewise pelted with these apples. The police officer told
> me
>>>>> that although he couldn't prove it, it was likely that their parents,
>>>>> who work for the local branch of a recording company and are members
> of
>>>>> ASCAP (per a sticker on their front window), likely put the kids up
> to
>>>>> it. Needless to say, I shudder to think of what lesson those children
>>>>> might have learned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since then, we've issued 6 press releases, 2 opinion editorials (both
>>>>> unpublished), and actually had one saboteur (who succeeded in
> destroying
>>>>> the group that I had created in Utah so far).
>>>>>
>>>>> Though we get great coverage through technical sources (such as
>>>>> Torrenfreak, for example), mainstream media seems to largely be
> trying
>>>>> to ignore us. These are the very people who need our help the most,
> and
>>>>> they don't even know who we are. We need to do something about this,
> but
>>>>> I'm at a loss as to what.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a slot at the local library for a two-hour class (just got it
>>>>> reserved today, as a matter of fact), though I'm not sure that people
>>>>> will even want to pay attention. I hope they will, though I'm not
> sure
>>>>> how to accomplish getting the attention needed for it. We're going to
>>>>> have a voter registration drive, and I'm going to give a presentation
>>>>> based somewhat on Rick's speeches to Google and at OSCon. However, if
>>>>> nobody is there to listen, giving a speech won't be really be
> practical.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm also going to be getting a Utah web site together, just as soon
> as
>>>>> we can get everything else rolling.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are currently 43 signatures that I've personally collected: not
>>>>> quite enough for the 2000 that I need. I want to try a signature
> drive
>>>>> online, as well, though the big issue I have is that the state
> requires
>>>>> a lot of very personal, private information (such as street address
> and
>>>>> voter registration number, neither of which I should think we'd need,
>>>>> but it's a matter of ensuring that people don't vote twice, according
> to
>>>>> the Lieutenant Governor).
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, I was speaking to the Lieutenant Governor's office here, and
> I've
>>>>> been told that the collection of this information is not only
> mandatory,
>>>>> it's the least amount of information that any state in the United
> States
>>>>> collects. Most collect a social number, driver's license or ID card
>>>>> number, and the name of the employer as well ("...for security...").
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm up against a tidal wave of corrupt politics and special
> interests,
>>>>> as well, I've been told that a lobby group here in Utah who has been
>>>>> known to favor the positions of the entertainment industry in, spite
> of
>>>>> their claims to be unrelated, have started to try to lobby to prevent
>>>>> new political parties from having such an easy time of it in Utah.
> They
>>>>> want to double the requirement to establish the new political party,
> and
>>>>> increase the percentage needed to maintain political party status. In
>>>>> addition, this group has also decided that they will never confront
> me
>>>>> directly, and refuses to speak to me. This group has a majority of
> the
>>>>> senate seats already. In addition, they have gerrymandered the
> state's
>>>>> political boundaries so as to maintain their control base.
>>>>> Gerrymandering in the United States, by the way, is not only common
>>>>> practice but also encouraged because it's not against the law.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been speaking to the candidates for political office here, as
> well.
>>>>> Most of them have policies that agree with out positions. However,
> most
>>>>> of them are also against the idea that another political party is
>>>>> needed. They are blinded by the idea that their own parties, whomever
>>>>> they may be, are the best solution possible to the current situation.
>>>>> They consistently try to send me information that will "win me over"
> to
>>>>> their side. Not one of them has offered me any assistance with regard
> to
>>>>> patent or copyright issues, though one has stated that if he gets
> into
>>>>> office, he'd be willing to listen to strategies for reform of the
>>>>> current laws, even as he couldn't make any guarantees that they'd
> change
>>>>> a lot because the President of the United States does not make the
> laws
>>>>> for the people here.
>>>>>
>>>>> The mayor of my city is corrupt. I cannot speak to him.
>>>>>
>>>>> The person running against him, however, is a former member of his
>>>>> cabinet, and she's been pointing out his corruptions, though the
> local
>>>>> newspaper doesn't really care about her either. Speaking to her, she
> is
>>>>> not going to be much better, simply because she doesn't have a
> concept
>>>>> of what benefit transparency has to a local governing body.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elections are on the 6th of November.
>>>>>
>>>>> So... now that you know the ENTIRE story, any ideas about what could
> be
>>>>> done will be welcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, and I hope to hear back again soon... with only 120 days
> left,
>>>>> it's going to be a solidly uphill battle to get to the high ground...
>>>>> even though the high ground already belongs to me, since I'm working
> to
>>>>> expand the rights of people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Ray Jenson
>>>>> ____________________________________________________
>>>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>>>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> 
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
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