[pp.int.general] Political Party X

[aloa5]

Carlos Ayala schrieb:
> ----- Mensaje original ----
> De: aloa5 <piratenpartei at t-online.de>
> Enviado: martes, 1 de julio, 2008 8:32:33
>  > Morning :)
> 
> Morning, Jens -are you Jens, right?-

Hello Carlos,
sorry for this - but no, I am not Jens. ;)

Perhaps some pirates have me in mind from the international forum. Nice 
discussions there more then a year ago I think... even with Falkvinge 
just about this and other points of his first version of an 
international manifest.

Best regards
ALOA




> 
>  > Our aim should be to form a own group. It doesn´t matter if in 2009 
> or later. It is not very likely that we get a seat in
>  > 2009. But if we get some we should act as PP. Not only for us - but 
> for the press and mainly for the voters. They don´t
>  > want to read "the green fraction has voted...". To reach the aim of 
> getting more seats *later* we have to gain
>  > something what I would call "political profile". It´s nearly 
> impossible to get this in a coalition (and nothing other we
>  > talk about here). This should be obvious. This aside the fact that 
> disagreements to points of another fraction in EP
>  > would be a permanent factor.
> 
> That's true: if we get 1 seat in 2009, we'll aim to get at least to in 
> 2014, and at least 3 in 2019, etc ... although we are not in the verge 
> of getting our own group in 2009, it should be our goal -you're right- 
> in a medium, long term.
> 
> And the other assertion is also true, and it's one of main reasons of 
> being rejected as a succedaneous if we enter another group: the 
> political profile. Our own personality within the parliament.
> 
>  > If we say "yes" to all other points and just try to get influence in 
> another fraction... WE are not much more then
>  > lobbyists. Perhaps we should try to find out what the difference 
> between lobbyists and politicians is. The
>  > ChaosCoputerClub and all other civil right groups are lobbyists.
>  >
>  > >From my point of view:
>  > Lobbyists want *others* (party´s) to do what they want. A party 
> *does*. ;) (Please think over this point :) ).
> 
> A 116 % accurate comment :) We have a responsibility representing 
> citizens, and we have to develop an active, independent role in 
> parliaments, being ourselves.
> 
>  > It seems to me as if this difference is not very present for many 
> pirates. I accept that it is difficult for us - because the
>  > pirates come often from lobby-groups/NGO´s and are activists. But 
> (just again) we have to seperate in "forcing" and
>  > "doing ourselves". To be a party means forming *and* representing the 
> thinking of the citizen *and* doing
>  > something/this on our own.... being an NGO means the same but not to 
> on their own but to lobbying in party´s.
> 
> I again agree. We're not a lobby defending filesharing, we're a party 
> with its own agenda, trying to improve democracy, trying to preserve and 
> enhance rights and liberties, etc. And we should defend it until the 
> end, and developing a bond between us and the citizens, and those groups 
> that are actually the lobbies -instead of us that, as you point, we are 
> a party-; if we get some seats, we'll owe everything to the citizens, 
> and our duty will be to represent them.
> 
>  > We can not act as an NGO but *be* an GO. This will not work. Not for 
> us and not for the voters. Even if they would not
>  > see it as such they would feel it and vote the party wich (I think 
> Carlos) called "the original". The group wich act´s.
> 
> That's right, Jens. Regards,
> 
> 
>                                                                                      
> Carlos Ayala
>                                                                                      
> ( Aiarakoa )
> 
>                                                                Partido 
> Pirata National Board's Chairman
> 
> P.S.: One question, Jens, as you were in Uppsala: has in any way 
> Deutsches Piraten Partei signed Uppsala Declaration, in particular the 
> EP Strategy section?
> 
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