[pp.int.general] Political Party X

[Carlos Ayala]

----- Mensaje original ----
De: aloa5 <piratenpartei at t-online.de>
Enviado: martes, 1 de julio, 2008 8:32:33
> Morning :)

Morning, Jens -are you Jens, right?-

> Our aim should be to form a own group. It doesn´t matter if in 2009 or later. It is not very likely that we get a seat in
> 2009. But if we get some we should act as PP. Not only for us - but for the press and mainly for the voters. They don´t
> want to read "the green fraction has voted...". To reach the aim of getting more seats *later* we have to gain
> something what I would call "political profile". It´s nearly impossible to get this in a coalition (and nothing other we
> talk about here). This should be obvious. This aside the fact that disagreements to points of another fraction in EP
> would be a permanent factor.

That's true: if we get 1 seat in 2009, we'll aim to get at least to in 2014, and at least 3 in 2019, etc ... although we are not in the verge of getting our own group in 2009, it should be our goal -you're right- in a medium, long term.

And the other assertion is also true, and it's one of main reasons of being rejected as a succedaneous if we enter another group: the political profile. Our own personality within the parliament.

> If we say "yes" to all other points and just try to get influence in another fraction... WE are not much more then
> lobbyists. Perhaps we should try to find out what the difference between lobbyists and politicians is. The
> ChaosCoputerClub and all other civil right groups are lobbyists.
>
> From my point of view:
> Lobbyists want *others* (party´s) to do what they want. A party *does*. ;) (Please think over this point :) ).

A 116 % accurate comment :) We have a responsibility representing citizens, and we have to develop an active, independent role in parliaments, being ourselves.

> It seems to me as if this difference is not very present for many pirates. I accept that it is difficult for us - because the
> pirates come often from lobby-groups/NGO´s and are activists. But (just again) we have to seperate in "forcing" and
> "doing ourselves". To be a party means forming *and* representing the thinking of the citizen *and* doing 
> something/this on our own.... being an NGO means the same but not to on their own but to lobbying in party´s.

I again agree. We're not a lobby defending filesharing, we're a party with its own agenda, trying to improve democracy, trying to preserve and enhance rights and liberties, etc. And we should defend it until the end, and developing a bond between us and the citizens, and those groups that are actually the lobbies -instead of us that, as you point, we are a party-; if we get some seats, we'll owe everything to the citizens, and our duty will be to represent them.

> We can not act as an NGO but *be* an GO. This will not work. Not for us and not for the voters. Even if they would not
> see it as such they would feel it and vote the party wich (I think Carlos) called "the original". The group wich act´s.

That's right, Jens. Regards,


                                                                                     Carlos Ayala
                                                                                     ( Aiarakoa )

                                                               Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman

P.S.: One question, Jens, as you were in Uppsala: has in any way Deutsches Piraten Partei signed Uppsala Declaration, in particular the EP Strategy section?



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