[pp.int.general] Pirate Manifesto Reloaded

Carlos Ayala aiarakoa at yahoo.es
Fri Jul 4 11:30:05 CEST 2008

----- Mensaje original ----
De: aloa5 <piratenpartei at t-online.de>
Enviado: viernes, 4 de julio, 2008 7:54:37
> Hello Anton,
> there are more options. I think your options are polarising (and point 2 is not written down in the declaration). ;)

Also, point 1 shown by Anton is wrong, as it exclude other options and present a ... bizarre one -not dealing anymore with anyone- as if it were the real one. Not being in a coalition is totally different from not negotiating with that or other groups, issue by issue.

> Lets have a look about the different points here and if we can have a consens. :)
> As far as I can see we have this two sides of a coin on wich is written "politic" on it:
> * The scandinavian Pirates think that we have to built a coalition with a/the/any gouvernment party anyway to get
> might. The "costs" for this can be really high. They assume that the might they would have with 1, 2 3 seats in EU or
> national parliaments would imply enough might for changing something.
> The spanish Pirates think the other way around that we never go into a coalition this way.

Let me specify that not being in a coalition doesn't disallow to
negotiate issue by issue; simply, it disallows to unconditionally
support another party.

> I will offer following points for finding a compromise or a working plattform:
> 1.) Coalitions (as an option) have to be possible 
> 2.) If the price for a coalition (compromises to be made) is reasonable will be a decision of the PP members in each
> country.
> 3.) We have do decide *after* an election

While I appreciate your consenssus efforts :) the thing with that approach is that, instead of being a compact
movement, we would may find -e.g., with 8 MPs from 4 countries (not
enough to have our own parliamentary group)- 2 MPs from country A
having joint greens, 2 MPs from country B having joint communists, 2
MPs from country C having joint 'liberals', and 2 MPs from country D
-namely, Spain- staying in non-inscrits; it wouldn't look quite much
like a international pirate movement, but a bunch of MPs each one following an own way.

> And - to come across the point 2 you (Anton) below mentioned - I would like to ask the skandinavian Pirates 
> something.
> The same argumentation can be used for every separate country to legitimate any coalition -- and promising (any)
> coalitions before an election.

Actually what Uppsala Declaration encourages: promising that a coalition would be held anyway. Regards,

                                                                                       Carlos Ayala
                                                                                       ( Aiarakoa )

                                                                 Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman

P.S.: As I said in my former mail, I agree on what we stated last night, about focusing on the
Manifesto thing instead continuing this argue -as I think each one's
stances are pretty clear-. 5 pirate parties out of 12 have already
filled in this wiki page their sections -Piraatti Puolue, PPUS, PIRATA, Piraten Partij and the Danish pirate party-.

P.P.S.: Piratpartiet, Parti Pirate, Partia Piratow, Piraten Partai, Deutsches Piraten Partei, Piraten Partei Oesterreichs and Australian Pirate Party have to yet. Common, the quicker we do it,
the quicker we'll be able to start developing the Pirate Manifesto's
First Draft :)

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