[pp.int.general] Pirate Manifesto: using Uppsala as a re-launchingplatform

[Carlos Ayala]

Reinier: with or without manifesto, next year we'll have to concur to European Election with a common political platform for all the EU -or are you willing to concur with up to 9 different platforms, if all of 9 EU pirate parties manage to be able to present candidates?-.

If we achieve to nail any seat -difficult, of course; impossible is nothing :)-, that seat wouldn't represent only the party where the MP is member of, but would represent the whole PPI; which decisions would he/she take? according to what? If we want to be a political movement we have to have our common ideas pretty clear -leaving room for each party's own ideas at the national scope-. It would be nonsensical to wait until march-april 2009 to have a common platform and a common agenda; we want to campaign not by our PIRATA own, but together as a team, as a joint movement.

----- Mensaje original ----
De: Reinier Bakels <r.bakels at planet.nl>
Enviado: jueves, 26 de junio, 2008 9:02:06
> However sympathetic this 
idea is, in NL one of us tried to write a kind of manifesto and it was a 
failure. Still no result.
> At the same time, others were engaged in concrete 
political activities, and, as you all know, nowadays there is every
> reason on 
earth to be politically pro-active in the field of "intellectual property", 
privacy, and related PP topics.

Was it a failure? If everyone within the party works together on it, a draft may be achieved in less than a month; and later you only have to allow amendments and make all members vote such amendments. Voila! Un manifesto tres delicieux :)

> Perhaps for PP's that have 
some substance already this is different, but it seems to me that a PP such 
as in NL which is
> still in its infancy, just with a handful of volunteers 
rather than a true organisation, it is better to work bottom-up than
> top-down 
from a manifesto. With bottom-up I mean: working on political topics that 
deserve, not to say *require*
> immediate attention.

We still haven't in PIRATA as much substance as Piratpartiet (6.000 members) or Deutsches Piraten Partei (800 members); however, we managed to have our set of common ideas in a record time -a draft in less than a month, the final text in just two months-. Where you see a problem I see an advantage, as it's obviously easier for few members to agree than having hundreds of members agreeing on a set of issues.

What do you mean with bottom-up? PIRATA is not EC, is not Durao Barroso, is not Sarkozy, is not Cavaco Silva ... our Manifesto process, although it has a group in charge of drafting it, was open in its draft stage for everyone; and as I said, everyone was allowed to amend it. Finally, when we were only 25 members, we allowed an average result of >60 % of YES to all amendments. Is it enough bottom-up?

> Is it a risk to work on 
such action without a proper manifesto laying the groundwork?

Calling it risk is an euphemism: it's suicidal. I repeat: we in PIRATA want to campaign, by the end of 2008 or the beginning of 2009, as a joint team together with the rest of pirate parties ... and not as a bunch of parties each making way by their own; we in PIRATA also want to have a set of common ideas to ensure that, whoever the candidate of whatever pirate party becomes elected as MP, that brand new MPs defend those common ideas; thus, we would be able not to talk about a votes in Sweden, b votes in Germany, c votes in Spain, d votes in Netherlands, etc ... but a + b + c + d + ... = x votes in EU for the pirate movement. Are we a common movement? Then we need to have clear our common ideas, common to all pirate parties belonging to it.

> I think in the field of 
so-called "intellectual property" and privacy all of us agree easily. Well, 
perhaps the details a
> debatable, like whether copyright levies are a good idea I 
have strong arguments they are not, but I found there is no
> unanimity about this 
among PP people). But if there is no agreement, a Manifesto is not a solution 
either. And I noted
> that there is definitely no agreement on topics further 
afield, such as the European Constitution. But imho it is not a
> priority to 
cover the entire spectrum of political policy.

Exactly, details are debatable, but general concepts are shared -defense of rights and liberties, culture sharing, free information, etc-; the goal of the Manifesto is to find out which are those general concepts, describe them and pack them.

To do it we should need to find out where we undoubtably agree, and where we agree on a general, abstract basis though differing in details -and debate those details-; in which topics do you find disagreement, Reinier? The page is aimed to find such topics, so if you already know it -without asking everyone? very praiseworthy :)- please let us know. By the way, I haven't found such disagreement about Lisboa Treaty within this list, where have you seen it? I think you're too pessimistic, Reinier.

> I believe we should be 
careful not to loose momentum debating over such fundamental issues while 
the world is on fire
> in the field of copyright and privacy (a few examples: the 
recent Swedish tapping law, the French "graduated response"
> plans, the 
preposterous implementation of the Data Retention Directive in various national 
statutes, the levy war
> between record companies and electronics 
manufacturers - which tends to ignore more fundamental questions, and the
> increased propensity to apply criminal law).

Apart from language obviousness -it's fundamental to debate over fundamental issues, that's why such issues are called (even by yourself in that paragraph) fundamental-, as I said, we in PIRATA find suicidal to concur up to 9 EU pirate parties without having a common agenda. Are you feeling comfortable with that idea?

Remember: it's required to have 19 MPs from 5 different countries to be allowed to constitute a parliamentary group within European Parliament; are you willing 19 MPs from 5 different countries -or 3 MPs from 3 different countries- to concur defending different agendas on the same topics? Of course that the differences may usually rather be just nuances -not in all cases, in some may be more that nuances-, but even then it would deceive our voters, as if we are going to represent EU-wide pirate voters as a joint movement how would we work within the Parliament without having clear what we defend?

> Some Pirate Parties such as 
in Sweden, Germany and Poland are firmy established. But in other countries, 
like NL, it
> is still pretty fragile. If the focus is on a theoretical endeavour 
such as writing a Manifesto, people may devert their
> attention to fields of 
action outside the PP framework. As actually happened in NL.

It only happens when one has not clear which framework is that. So let us work on defining the EU and worldwide pirate framework -and how to manage the non-core issues, also a capital issue as in the real world (if we manage to nail some seats nationwide or EU-wide) we are expected to deal with the rest of parties-.

Actually it will help you in NL :)


> We need a sense of urgency 
to address the *current* issues *short term*. There is currently a concerted 
action of record
> companies to, eh, turn the Internet into a police state, and, 
remarkably, it lands on fertile ground with the current "law &
> order" 
mentality prevailing in conservative politics. Where is the 
concerted PP response?

Instead of guessing concerted response, or just focusing on author's rights, let's gonna find out our common stances: it will make easier for us to work together defending our common values.

   
> Perhaps we should decide on 
priorities first.

Manifesto isa priority. Otherwise, we would be going to concur to European Election without having a clear idea of what we are defending in the EU scope, very harmful when trying to create a joint movement. Regards,


                                                                                      Carlos Ayala
                                                                                      ( Aiarakoa )

                                                               Partido Pirata National Board's Chairman



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