[pp.int.general] Political Party X (was: Uppsala Declaration)

[Amelia Andersdotter]

2008/6/30 Eduardo Robles Elvira <edulix at gmail.com>:
> El Domingo 29 Junio 2008, "Mårten Fjällstr"öm escribió:
>> In the European Parliament, it is the party groups that are the key to
>> getting influence. Once elected, we will discuss with the groups that
>> could be of interest, to determine which group is closest to us, and join
>> that group.
>>
>> Inside the group, we will do our utmost to persuade the other members of
>> the group to join our position on the issues that fall within our
>> political platform. In return, we´ll listen to the advice of the group on
>> all other issues, and vote with the group unless we have some strong
>> reasons not to.
>
> I for one say a strong NO to that way of doing politics. So we are a Pirate
> Party, but then we are not anymore independent because we join THAT group. c
>
> Then, in that group the idea of the *declaration* you just try to convince
> them for our positions (please, please, please), but in return we'll vote
> with the group "unless we have some strong reason not to".
>
> This seems pretty broken. That's *not* the way things should be done at all.
> First, it's against our pirate party statutes.

I can see two good reasons for why we should join a specific group:
the voters, and the other parliamentarians.

It solves one major problem for the Pirate Parties: what we do with
ourselves in all the other issues. We may only pursue 3 core issues,
but in any parliament we will still have to work with all the rest of
the EU-parl-stuff. Potential voters will feel more reassured if we
have a straight-forward strategy for how we're going to vote in our
non-issues, rather than if we say "all the rest is up to the personal
ethics of our delegates".

Also, being in the parliament does not mean we will be able to propose
changes in EU legislation, rather the contrary. But we can try to make
sure other parliamentary groups talk about our issues. They will be
more prone to do so if we listen to them as well. The worst thing that
can happen to us in the EU-parliament is that we just sit around and
vote no to things we don't like, and ditch all the rest of the issues.
We'll just come across as un-serious and lazy (this happened to a
Swedish party in the last parliament election, Junilistan)

/amelia

> But it's worst than that. To
> me, this seems like the one who wrote the *Uppsala declaration* - or at least
> that part of it - has a clear political agenda.
>
> That agenda seems pretty clear: gain momentum, get a seat in the european
> parliament, convert the Pirate Party in part of the political party X (could
> you just tell us what party is it already?), and end up being swallowed by
> that party. Because you know, people don't like to vote the substitute, but
> the original party X.
>
> So summing up, pirate party seems to be just the trampoline      for entering
> the "Political Party X".
>
> Regards,
>       Eduardo Robles Elvira.
>
>
> --
> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
> persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress
> depends on the unreasonable man." (George Bernard Shaw)
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>