[pp.int.general] Open positions in PPI

[Sven Clement]

Normally I would not enter this discussion if it wasn't so important for the
future of PPI which I think is a great idea to have.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Rackham <denis.germain at partipirate.org>wrote:

>
> Le 7 déc. 09 à 00:57, Joonas Mäkinen a écrit :
>
>
>  There is no need to
>> woryr about "focusing on wrong things" here.
>>
>
>
> I'm not writing we are out of focus, but that to focus on anything
> important we really have some issues to iron and clear out seemingly.
>

Before we can act together in a coordinated way and before we can really
stand publicly with one voice, we need to formally found the PPI. Thus I
think it would be more important to focus on the discussions how to
ameliorate the future work of PPI then to try to create something before
having defined clearly how it can work best.


>
>
> Le 7 déc. 09 à 03:47, Max Lalouschek | Piratenpartei Österreichs a écrit :
>
>
>  And please let's stay civilized by doing so. Accusing others of lying
>> or calling them idiots doesn't help a bit and has nothing to do with
>> transparency. I hope we all agree that such a behaviour is completely
>> childish and shouldn't even happen on PPI level.
>>
>
> Sure. I don't believe the whole bunch of us are kindergarten trolls free
> riding that's why I think there's something inherently W.R.O.N.G in the way
> PPs and PPi communicate.


If we were all kindergarten trolls, I could not imagine us having achieved
what we already have achieved. But I agree on this point that we need to
reorganize the communication paths between PPs and the PPI. If not even the
boards of the national parties are aware of PPI business we HAVE a problem.


>
>
>  (It's AT) I think I speak for the whole Austrian board when I say that
>> Pertain is one of the few very capable and reliable Pirates, who has
>> earned our respect and should not be blamed for
>> structural/organisational deficits.
>>
>
> Witch hunting is really fun (yaaaaarrrr), but do we have the ressources to
> be wasted that are permitting us all to burn internationally someone once in
> a while ? No. ;)


<sarcasm>
Why not? We could decimate the number of people willing to work for an
international movement considerably by burning them on MLs. And this would
probably motivate more and more people to join the movement. ;)
</sarcasm>


>
>
>  That's just too easy. We are
>> obviously talking of a bigger problem here. However, it should be
>> dealt with in a civilised manner.
>>
>
> - First thing: it is not normal when someone in not answering you, be it
> inside the coreteam, or inside/between coreteam/PPi and the PPs. That should
> not be. Being overbooked (as I know some are) is not a reason for not being
> able to send a quick email telling "way way too much overbooked, can we talk
> in a few days: [insert date and  mode here]"
>

This HAS TO BE normal procedure for the coreteam, I totally understand, that
you guys are working hard, I also agree that we cannot have always a
complete answer after 24/48 hours, but I would be glad to at least see that
someone is looking into my mail. Also because I (as most of the others) have
to be transparent with my board so that if I do not get at least an answer
telling me: "we do not have time, let's discuss it later" I can't tell
anything to my board which is bad for approval of PPI on a national level.


> - Sure the wiki reports helps, but they are only a state of things without
> the ins and outs and bits. Why not make the irc full talk available
> _privately_ to each PP boards? (Let's make some Glasnost) In the actual
> state of things, decisions come out without the necessary background (why,
> how, what for?) so out of nothing. And worse, in the last 2 months there's
> been 4 irc meetings without quorum we don't even know what has been talked
> about even if no decision has been taken.


I understand Samirs concerns about being completely transparent but I do
think that at LEAST the members (the parties) should get ALL information
that there is. Including but not limiting to complete IRC-logs, information
about meetings with other organizations, status of the incorporation of PPI,
etc.

This does not have to be open to everyone, but EVERY BOARD should get access
to the same informations as the coreteam, because if that is not guaranteed,
how can the coreteam be controlled? How can the national boards deliberate
onto something they have not ALL the information? This entire discussion
could have been avoided if the national boards would have had access to the
mentioned information.

Regards,
Sven Clement
Chairman PP Luxembourg
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