[pp.int.general] One good, one bad

[Félix Robles]

On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Jerry Weyer <jerry.weyer at piratepartei.lu>wrote:

>
> On 3 nov. 09, at 20:37, Félix Robles wrote:
>
>  One thing is a Treaty and another a Constitution. But the Lisbon Treaty is
>> the failed European Constitution with makeup changes, so how's that our
>> governments are going to override our whole national constitutions with
>> another one without the due democratic process?Why is it that they wanted to
>> subject the failed European Constitution to national referendums and not the
>> Lisbon Treaty when they are practically the same thing?
>>
>
> As I said, it's not the Lisbon Treaty that changes anything about the
> hierarchy of EC law and national constitutions. The EC/EU treaties are at
> european level of the same value as the national constitutions (on an
> informal level they are even superior).
>
> I'm not saying there shouldn't have been referendum, but the treaty would
> have failed again an that would have been a huge problem! The Lisbon treaty
> is a great improvement on the old treaties and makes the EU a more
> democratic an better functioning body. It's by no means as democratic as it
> could/should be, nor does it function as effectively as it should/could, but
> a failure of the treaty would have caused serious problems in the EU and
> (this is important) in every single member state!
>
> We need a stronger european Parliament and the pirate parties have to make
> sure they fight for that cause, not against the EU or the EU parliament!
>
>

Perhaps we need to have that huge problem in order to do things the right
way. The Lisbon treaty is a very important set of laws that override our
Constitutions and they should be approved through referendum. Maybe the
Lisbon Treaty is a better thing that nothing, maybe not, but it only should
be approved by the people, for the people, with the people. Otherwise, it's
not democratic and that worse than "nothing approved".

The ends do not justify the means in a democracy.
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