[pp.int.general] 3. Re: One good, one bad (Jerry Weyer)

[Jerry Weyer]

On 5 nov. 09, at 02:56, Richard Stallman wrote:
>
> Even if that was adopted through a democratic procedure, it is
> undemocratic in nature.

Now we're talking esoterics?! What is more democratic than a text  
adopted in a democratic procedure? I don't say it has to be good (we  
all know that dictators can and were elected), but then the problem is  
the people voting, not the democracy itself.

That was one problem with the constitutional treaty, and I see that  
it's the same for several people on this list. In a whole the treaty  
was better than what is now, but every one finds a piece he doesn't  
like and bashes the whole text. I don't like several parts, but I  
voted yes, because I know we have to progress...

>
> I think the EU is planning to impose the Anti-Citizens Treachery
> Agreement (ACTA) on all countries; that will require the 3-strikes
> HADOPI policy.  Thus, the Pirate Party will have to advocate either
> defying ACTA or pulling out of ACTA.  Either one will mean defiance of
> the EU.
>
> To show that that is justified, one needs to denounce the EU as
> unjust.  If you treat the EU as something that must always be
> respected then you lose immediately.

Denounce the EU as unjust? I'm sorry that I have to be that clear but  
you don't have an idea what the EU is and what it did the last 60  
years! The ACTA, INDECT, the procedures are points that clearly must  
be changed, but you just aren't able to see the big picture if you see  
the EU as sth. threatening. Read about the history of the EU and  
retrace the steps... you'll see it became more and more democratic...  
we have to encourage this process and not block it by denouncing the EU.

We as the pirate parties depend upon the EU; our demands are global  
and cannot be fulfilled on a national scale. Lose the EU - lose the  
chance to change, it's that easy!

J.