[pp.int.general] Translation of the Pirate Manifesto

[Andrew Norton]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 2:40 AM, Reinier Bakels <r.bakels at planet.nl> wrote:
>> I am becoming a bit confused: is there actually a document, a sentence,
>> anything, that is (more-or-less) "official" and on what (almost) all the
>> Pirate Parties agree?
>
> No, afaik there is not. By the end of 2008, the manifesto "A-B-C" project
> was abandoned by most contributors after heavy flame wars, and in the end is
> really was the project of a single man, Carlos Ayala.

You're mixing some things up, Reinier. The work was NOT that of a
single man, there were quite a few of us involved in it (don't let a
little thing like facts get in the way of your statements, Reinier!).
Start with the fact that 11 parties participated in it. The flamewars
were down to one man though, and that man was you.

You certainly do have the traditional political habit down of
barefaced lies to boost self-importance. Good for you!

> During the Helsinki
> meeting early this year, it was *not* discussed at all. Carlos was
> disappointed, but he was pretty alone.

It was not discussed at all when you were present, to the best of your
knowledge, is, I believe, a more accurate statement.

>
> The Uppsala document (composed during the summer 2008 meeting) wasn't so
> much intended as *the* PP "Manifesto", but more the by-product of a (very
> useful) workshop, a mental exercise to better understand PP goals and
> strategies.
>
> I wrote a one page "PPI Principles" document for the Helsinki meeting (see
> attachment), more to provide an alternative than because I believe(d) that a
> manifesto was (or is) a priority. We spent little time on it in the meeting,
> fortunately. The purpose of a political party is to gain votes, and a
> "philosophical" documents like a manifesto should be judged from that
> perspective: does it help to get more votes? As you know, actually
> deceptively few voters read party programs.

Indeed, the media reads them instead, and issue advocacy groups, and
then passes on information digested from them.

>
> I won't repeat here why I believe that the A-B-C manifesto's are not
> suitable as *the* PP manifesto (else I unleash another flame war, I am
> afraid).

If by unleash, you mean start, it's likely. Then again, that's what
comes of faulty, and self-important statements. We know what you
believe, you unleashed it on this list in voluminous spewed invective,
much of which had no basis beyond 'you believe'. Since you can't keep,
or even research facts (such as a basic one like how many were
involved in the manifesto -
http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto#Who or one of the
meetings http://int.piratenpartei.de/Pirate_Manifesto_IRC_meeting_20080710
which had representatives from poland, spain, austria, australia, and
denmark in it - one man?) your beliefs are worth less and less to me.

Either stick to the truth, or STFU reinier, because I for one am
getting tired of your lies and bullshit. I doubt I'm the only one.

>
> reinier
>
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>
>