[pp.int.general] Big Brother in NL?

[Nicolas Sahlqvist]

I was wondering why this old subject was discussed today and then the news
hit me:
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/11/cabinet_finalises_road_pricing.php

The Dutch liberals are trying an interesting EU argument:
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/11/liberals_ask_brussels_about_ki.php


- Nicolas
  PPI / PPSE member


On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 2:44 PM, Andrew Norton <ktetch at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 5:08 AM, Nicolas Sahlqvist <nicco77 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Tracking movements with GPS is so far the most integrity concerning
> > alternative suggested so far, but already larger cities in NL measure the
> > speed for cars entering and exiting the city, the speed cameras register
> all
> > Dutch licence plates and the same when exiting and calculates if the
> average
> > speed is higher then then speed limit, I bet the police is looking at
> this
> > information to track "criminals" movements too when they feel it is
> needed.
> > http://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/verkeer/english/section_control/
> >
> http://www.airquality.co.uk/reports/cat09/0505171129_Rotterdam_speed_control_zone_Detailed_Assessment.doc
>
> Ah yes, the good old SPECs system. When I did my month's training with
> the traffic police in Merseyside (I was training to be an industrial
> accident investigator at the time, we had to go to traffic incidents
> for practice) they'd just put a specs system up on the M62. From what
> I remember, they couldn't access the system for tracking, they
> discarded the plates when the last camera in the system was passed,
> but this was 2001, so it may have changed since then. (side note, on
> that system, they couldn't read the front plate on the 340 I was
> driving at the time, as it was mounted under the front bumper)
>
> >
> > In Sweden there are road tolls in Stockholm, they are handled via cameras
> > filming all license plates and radio boxes that regular commuters can buy
> > (motivation: discount on fee) and everything is processed at a IBM
> > datacenter in Denmark:
> >
> http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Work-live/Government-politics/Reading/Car-tolls-reduce-Stockholm-traffic/
> >
> http://lovetomorrowtoday.com/2009/05/12/ibm-stockholm-build-a-smarter-toll-system/
> > http://www.ibm.com/podcasts/howitworks/040207/index.shtml
>
> Theres a toll motorway in the UK similar, and of course there's the
> London Congestion Zone (itself a development of the old 'ring of
> steel' implimented in the 80s). I don't know personally if it's made
> any improvement to London traffic though, as i've only ever driven
> there once (I usually took the coach down)
>
> The ANPR cameras are connected to local police stations for
> car-flagging, plus they can check tax, insurance, and a bunch of other
> things. Some areas even have fleets of cars set up to use ANPR (Essex
> has a fleet of Impretza STi and Mitsubishi Evo 8s and 10s for
> instance) and liverpools got 30 or so such cars.
>
> As far as vehicle tax, on purchasing a car, it's low in the UK (thats
> why a lot of people now buy a car in the Netherlands, or Belgium,
> without the tax - as it's pre-tax price is lower - then bring it to
> the UK, and pay the smaller tax there) but the yearly tax is quite
> high. Don't think I could go back to paying $200 a year for a tax disc
> (for contrast, the equivilent tax for my car/land yacht, due next
> month, is about $33.45, the same for my civic, or my 3.1 litre
> lumina). Also, if they find your car without tax in the UK, they
> impound it, and you've got 14 days. If you've not paid by then, it's
> either sold at auction or crushed. Same with Insurance. Sometimes
> these systems get it wrong -
>
> http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/news/1169259.police_crushed_my_car_even_though_it_was_insured_dad/
>
> Despite this, taxes have gone up, not down.
>
> > In Germany there is a debate going on about road tax and it would not
> > surprise me if they follow the trend with cameras:
> > http://www.thelocal.de/national/20091105-23049.html
> > This is all motivated by environment issues and the privacy issues tends
> to
> > get forgotten...
>
> The environment is just a nice cover. Really it's about raising money,
> and gaining power.
>
> >
> > - Nicolas
> >   PPI / PPSE member
>
> Andrew
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