[pp.int.general] The conference - what went wrong; how can we do better?

Fri Apr 23 13:20:40 CEST 2010

Hi Jorge,

    Wolfgang was replying to Rodrigo, did you read before what was
Rodrigo saying? Forward that to your list instead of Wolf's joke about
Rodrigo's email. Maybe you might be lesser violent within we after
feeling shy about what are your members sending to this list .

    I am a personal friend of the ones organizing the streaming of the
World Social Forum in Porto Alegre. I talk about experience, not
prejudice. Man, I do work in the IT sector and suffer too often of BAD
Internet connectivity.

    I would never vote to make a remote conference in India, Vietnam,
Cambodja, Thailand or even Singapore for European people, as pings are
never below 300 ms and usually around 400-500ms. Now, after my tests, I
would also don't vote Brazil until it gets better Internet
communicacions with Europe, as previously said.

Here the facts, not oppinions:

    Tool: hping3.
    Operating System: Debian GNU/Linux
    Networks: Telefonica Data (Barcelona DSL), OVH (Paris Server)
    Port tested: 80/TCP - HTTP (so, a priorized one in most  QoS)

Response time from Barcelona to Brazilian's Government website, add at
least 30-50 to match most home connections.

    Brief: never less than 284 ms, average 302 ms.

len=46 ip=161.148.172.106 ttl=50 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=0
win=5840 rtt=305.8 ms
len=46 ip=161.148.172.106 ttl=50 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=1
win=5840 rtt=301.6 ms
len=46 ip=161.148.172.106 ttl=50 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=2
win=5840 rtt=301.3 ms

    Response time from Paris to Brazil:

Brief: 200 ms. Add at least 30-50 ms for any DSL in France + 30-50 for
Brazilian DSL

len=44 ip=161.148.172.106 ttl=52 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=1
win=5840 rtt=198.5 ms
len=44 ip=161.148.172.106 ttl=52 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=2
win=5840 rtt=198.5 ms
len=44 ip=161.148.172.106 ttl=52 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=3
win=5840 rtt=201.7 ms

    Response time from Paris to ftp.fr.debian.org:

len=44 ip=212.27.32.66 ttl=57 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=0 win=5840
rtt=4.7 ms
len=44 ip=212.27.32.66 ttl=57 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=1 win=5840
rtt=4.6 ms
len=44 ip=212.27.32.66 ttl=57 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=2 win=5840
rtt=4.4 ms

    Response time from Barcelona to Canadian's Government Website:

       Average, 171 ms.

len=46 ip=198.103.238.30 ttl=47 DF id=17029 sport=80 flags=SA seq=0
win=49312 rtt=169.2 ms
len=46 ip=198.103.238.30 ttl=45 DF id=17031 sport=80 flags=SA seq=2
win=49312 rtt=175.7 ms
len=46 ip=198.103.238.30 ttl=45 DF id=17032 sport=80 flags=SA seq=3
win=49312 rtt=170.8 ms
len=46 ip=198.103.238.30 ttl=47 DF id=17033 sport=80 flags=SA seq=4
win=49312 rtt=166.2 ms

     From Paris, at 4ms of the interconnection:

    Brief: 110 ms.

len=44 ip=198.103.238.30 ttl=49 DF id=12117 sport=80 flags=SA seq=0
win=49312 rtt=110.5 ms
len=44 ip=198.103.238.30 ttl=49 DF id=12118 sport=80 flags=SA seq=1
win=49312 rtt=109.7 ms
len=44 ip=198.103.238.30 ttl=49 DF id=12119 sport=80 flags=SA seq=2
win=49312 rtt=110.0 ms

    From Paris to Australia's government site:

Brief: 319 ms

len=44 ip=152.91.56.174 ttl=52 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=0 win=5840
rtt=319.8 ms
len=44 ip=152.91.56.174 ttl=52 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=1 win=5840
rtt=318.9 ms
len=44 ip=152.91.56.174 ttl=52 DF id=0 sport=80 flags=SA seq=2 win=5840
rtt=318.6 ms

BTW: Olympic games use satellite comunicacions to stream the video, FYI.

So, where is the prejudice? Canada is 1/3 faster than Brazil. That is a
fact and I am talking about Voice Over IP and video streaming.

Can you please bring us some proof instead of prejudice of prejudices
against you?

If you suggest a nice way to fix this, I will have no points against it.
I can point you to a friend who makes satellite links, it's only 5000
US$/mb/month.

Regards,

Kenneth

En/na Jorge ha escrit:
> I do not agree with the opinion in both sides of this discussion. But
> Mostrar romanizaçãoI could not stay silent in the face of certain
> comments.
>
> Wolfgang, the Brazillian Pirate Party accepted donations in the spirit
> of democracy, solidarity but also of the *freedom of ideas*. I can
> send your request to our list. Is interesting to know this kind of
> solidarity between pirates.
>
> Kenneth, we do not have problem of Internet conections to organize a
> meeting in Brazil - as well as in a middle or big city in America
> (yes, America is the name of the continent). How could we organize a
> World Cup or Olympic Games with some type of problem? I see a lot of
> prejudice in our comment.
>
> I don't agree anyway that the PPI congress was a "farce". But we all
> have a lot to know about collaboration, participation, public
> consultations and democracy as well. A multiparty organization will
> appear naturally when we are working in consonance. The result of the
> event showed us how we are not enough mature. For instance, we need a
> better communication exchange and dynamic space for discussions. Could
> be a good improvement if one member of each PPI could edit the site of
> PPI. I think the descentralization and participation are alway better
> to make things working and to minimize conflicts.
>
> Jorge
> Partido Pirata do Brasil
> (bald auch mitiglied von Deutsche Piratenpartei)
>
>
>
> Wolfgang Preiss escreveu:
>> Am 21.04.2010 21:20, schrieb Rodrigo Pereira:
>>>
>>> We could have used that money in our development but we would rather
>>> go to Europe to see this farce.
>>>
>>> Has some way to get money back?
>>>
>>> This stupidity has cost to us EUR 1194.43 . We can send the vouchers
>>> to you.
>>>
>>> This is equivalent to 200 shirts in Brazil
>>>
>>> But, we signed the statutes, congratulations... :\
>>
>> Well if you want your money back, please be so kind and send me back
>> the R$50 I donated for your deligate. The transaction code is
>> 2X497247KG605291N
>>
>> Thank You
>>
>> Wolfgang
>> german pirat
>> not a member of the board
>> volunteered at the conference on own costs
>>
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>>
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