[pp.int.general] Pirate support for Wikileaks
Justus Römeth
squig at dfpx.de
Mon Dec 6 19:57:19 CET 2010
Well, to be honest, as a historian who is also interested (and studying)
political science this is all mightily interesting, but shifts away the
focus from what wikileaks is supposed to be doing. It seems to be more
part of a powerplay between Assange and the US, but has little to do
with whistleblowing.
In this case I sorta agree with the former German spokesman of wikileaks
who said that, with stuff like that, wikileaks is sorta losing the
focus. It is undoubtedly still the most important whistleblower side out
there, but it becomes attackable doing stuff liek releasing the cables.
Some of them may be part of whistleblowing, and I generally agree that
the government (and corporations) should be far more open and
accessible, and accountable, to the public. I don't think diplomacy is
the most important field in this, though (and this is also where the
latest leak differs from those with the documents from Iraq and
Afghanistan).
Again, I don't want to take anything away from wikileaks, and think the
latest leak is very fascinating, It is not, however, actual
whistleblowing. It is just opening secrte documents to the public. If
all of those would be harming the public, it would be whistleblowing. I
think only a small fraction of those are really beneficial for the
public to know (like the one published today about the Chinese statesman).
cheers
-J
On 06.12.10 18:21, Jay Emerson wrote:
> Anybody notice how effective of a tool this distraction of an issue
> has become in taking attention away from the fact this is the biggest
> government leak since the Pentagon Papers?
>
> Look at the contents, not the messenger, kthnxbai.
>
> On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 4:35 AM, Justus Römeth <squig at dfpx.de
> <mailto:squig at dfpx.de>> wrote:
>
> Even if he committed that crime (according to Amelia it is alleged
> rape, which in Sweden also includes not stopping sex when the
> condom breaks), would that make all of wikileaks all of a sudden
> criminal?
>
>
> On 06.12.10 09:38, Aftermath wrote:
>
> Also, I am not trying to spread Anti-Wikileak rubble or
> anything like
> that. It's just that there's a lot of un-answered questions.
>
>
>
> Julian Assange is currently wanted by interpol for an alledged
> sex crime:
>
> http://www.interpol.int/public/data/wanted/notices/data/2010/86/2010_52486.asp
>
>
> Could it be a smear campaign by his enemies? Yes it could. If true
> then we're talking about conspiratorial theory here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 2:45 PM, boboniboni boboniboni
> <boboniboni at gmail.com <mailto:boboniboni at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> That is why I would say Assange is being very altruistic
> in this,
> maybe he is a real human hero. The future will tell.
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:40 PM, Jay
> Emerson<jemers2 at gmail.com <mailto:jemers2 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> We just offered our website (www.nypirates.org
> <http://www.nypirates.org>) to the cause of Mass
> Mirroring Wikileaks. As an activist, I have to say
> that the amount of heat
> Assange knew he would get for something like this HAS
> to be altruistic
> seeing as you're automatically in fear of your life
> from essentially every
> NATO ally state. A million dollars but the minute I
> spend it I could be
> capped by the CIA after being tailed? I call
> "bullshit" on Aftermath,
> respectfully :-)
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 5:33 PM, boboniboni
> boboniboni<boboniboni at gmail.com
> <mailto:boboniboni at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Is Assange supposed to live a life based on hard
> altruism? I think a
> reasonable and quick scientific analysis about
> human behavior will say
> that every human being runs on mutualistic shared
> goals (rational
> egoism) with a variable amount of altruism.
>
> I would find it surprising and pathological IF
> Assange was allegedly
> doing this under a radical notion of metaphysical
> hard altruism.
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:22 PM,
> Aftermath<aftermath.thegreat at gmail.com
> <mailto:aftermath.thegreat at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Wikileaks does what it does for Profit.
>
> I say this because julian assange is the only
> one who has access to
> the paypal donation account.
>
> No one knows how much is donated except for him.
>
>
> Wikileaks likes transparency for everyone
> except themselves.
>
>
>
>
> Cryptome is way cooler.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Nicolas
> Sahlqvist<nicco77 at gmail.com
> <mailto:nicco77 at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Forgot the link to Wikipedia:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juma_Khan_Hamdard
>
> - Nicolas
>
> On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 3:49 AM, Nicolas
> Sahlqvist<nicco77 at gmail.com
> <mailto:nicco77 at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Mixing the organisation Wikileaks with
> the assault charge of Assange
> is
> not the best of ideas and treating it
> differently could indicate that
> we
> don't really believe in the principle
> of innocent until proven
> guilty..
> I tend to think it is important to
> make a statement in support for the
> work Wikileaks does at the moment
> considering how it is threatened. We
> could
> mention other organisations that works
> on similar goals as you
> mention, but
> that part of the message would
> probably not be noticed when all media
> talks
> about is Wikileaks.
> There are also other ways to support
> leaks, by actively spreading
> leaks on
> the net. I seem to have this new hobby
> of reading SECRET cables from
> Wikileaks and the corrupt governor
> (Juma Khan Hamdard) of the Paktia
> province in Afghanistan caught my
> attention so I updated his Wikipedia
> page
> with the following sentences:
> "In May 2007 he was forced to resign
> as governor of Jowzjan when
> thousands
> demonstrated against him. Forces under
> his command shot at
> demonstrators in
> the Uzbek town of Shibirghan, killing
> thirteen and injuring more than
> thirty."
> "He is currently under investigations
> for soliciting bribes from
> contractors by having them arrested at
> job sites and held until the
> bribes
> were paid"
> And referenced to the Guardian quoting
> the cable from Wikileaks:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/241681
> I have to say that it was a very
> satisfactory to save those changes!
> ;)
>
> - Nicolas
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:20 PM, Amelia
> Andersdotter
> <teirdes at gmail.com
> <mailto:teirdes at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
> On 4 December 2010 19:03, Erik
> Lönroth<erik.lonroth at gmail.com
> <mailto:erik.lonroth at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> ... and would you support
> something that adds a few
> words about the
> "whistle-blowers" ?
>
> If anything should be supported
> it's whistle-blowers. And it is my
> position as a Swedish Pirate Party
> member and an incumbent Member of
> the
> European Parliament not to support
> a text that blindly supports the,
> eh.
> Defendant or plaintiff? Defendant
> I guess, in a case that has not
> even gone
> to court. Technically, there can't
> even be defendant or plaintiffs in
> this
> case because they are only
> conducting a preliminary
> investigation.
>
> Gosh, people are really sheep when
> they fall for media manipulation,
> aren't they?
>
> /a
>
> I removed that from my
> original text. I would not
> mind adding it.
>
> /Erik
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 7:01
> PM, Erik Lönroth
> <erik.lonroth at gmail.com
> <mailto:erik.lonroth at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Amelia, is it your
> position as a
> representative of the Pirate
> Party in
> Sweden and (soon) Member
> of the European Parliament
> not to support
> this text?
>
> http://openpad.me/m9av1kOVgs
>
>
> /Erik
>
> On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at
> 6:20 PM, Amelia Andersdotter
> <teirdes at gmail.com
> <mailto:teirdes at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> On 4 December 2010
> 12:17, Mikulas.Ferjencik
> <Mikulas.Ferjencik at seznam.cz
> <mailto:Mikulas.Ferjencik at seznam.cz>>
> wrote:
>
>
> I would like to
> note, that PPI is
> not supposed to
> issue Press
> releases, so
> it is more
> appropriate to
> prepare a press
> release, which can
> separate PPs
> endorse. It would
> also be good to
> include what do
> respective PPs
> do
> to
> support wikileaks.
>
> The Swedish Pirate
> Party and myself do
> not support Wikileaks as
> such,
> but
> leaking and leaking
> services in general
> (including OpenLeaks,
> cryptome and
> the newly formed
> Serbian project for
> leaks). We would like
> to see
> an
> inclusive statement
> that considers the
> benefit over
> whistleblowers in
> general, and not a
> specific service for
> this purpose.
>
> Wikileaks can
> certainly be
> exemplified, but it is
> important that
> they
> do not
> get to represent the
> entire leaking
> community, and especially
> that
> they do
> not overshadow the
> brave men and women
> who make sure the leaks
> get
> out there
> in the first place.
>
> Amelia Andersdotter
>
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>
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>
>
> --
> Jay Emerson
> Administrative Officer
> New York Pirate Party
>
> "My user has information that could...that could make
> this a free system
> again! No, really! You'd have programs lined up just
> to use this place, and
> no MCP looking over your shoulder." - Tron
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> <mailto:pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jay Emerson
> Administrative Officer
> New York Pirate Party
>
> "My user has information that could...that could make this a free
> system again! No, really! You'd have programs lined up just to use
> this place, and no MCP looking over your shoulder." - Tron
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
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