[pp.int.general] [Algemeen] Fwd: European Commission / Institute of International and European Affairs Internet Project
nicco77 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 9 22:03:50 CET 2010
Excellent, strike one! ;)
I took the liberty of forwarding this to the gneral PPI and YPI list, any
other PP or YP who want to provide input to IIEA?
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Sven Olaf Kamphuis <sven at cb3rob.net> wrote:
> We received your email by forward from another isp/telco, and yes, we can
> help you with some aspects of your Request For Comments document.
> We do have certain remarks tho :P
> 1: regarding article 8 of your RFC
> Why is this fictional "copyright" thing even mentioned (it lacks any
> democratic base), and politicians work for the EU population, not for
> some american kartells. (if i'm not mistaken ;)
> the concept of copyright law lacks:
> - A democratic base (noone would be in favour of a law that can put 99% of
> the population in prison or imposed fines upon if enforced 100%
> - Legal feasability from both "sides" (my computer can and has generated
> all possible musical patterns a few years ago allready, so it can just as
> well be used to stop anyone from publishing anything in the future)..
> - An economic base (isps and telcos generate a lot of VAT for the EU, the
> copyright industry does not.)
> - Copyright only seems to find application to some "forms" of art, computer
> programmers for example, hardy ever obtain royalties,
> and frankly, don't care about it as their business model isn't
> such an utter failure that it needs such to stay "profitable".
> - It's kinda funny that your RFC mentions "injunctions on service providers
> that provide services to third parties that infringe copyright" in chapter
> 8, this causes additional costs and loss of profit for the internet industry
> and facilitate easy censorship with lacking legal arguments i'd say they
> have to get a valid court verdict -first-...
> The MPAA/RIAA's arguments don't hold any factual base in most cases anyway.
> claiming "copyright" on movies filmed in a cinema, with added or removed
> parts, compressed, all constitute a "derivative work" by any countries
> copyright law. (even the copyright act of the USA)
> With regards to copyright, its better to just drop the whole thing as its
> not a working concept. get rid of the berne convention so companies like the
> MPAA/RIAA members can adjust their business model and simply sell their
> stuff worldwide directly. (if done properly, they may even be motivated to
> move -their- offices to the EU so they can pay taxes here..)
> In the end everyone has to make money, but we isps are definately not gonna
> clean up their mess caused by their lacking business model for them.
> The RIAA/MPAA have pushed the laws that now prevent them from selling
> "their" content to a worldwide market (berne convention, various other
> treaties) by corruption, and refuse to adapt to the new global market.
> -their problem-, stop covering their ass, they're a lost case.
> also take into consideration that ISPs and telcos OWN the internet.
> all the wires, switches, routers belong to us, the internet industry.
> governments piggyback their economy on it (atm machines, online banking,
> etc) and that's fine with us, but by no means an absolute -right-.
> It would by the way be appreciated if net-neutrality would be legally
> enforced, so that not only the state(s) obtain a right to have their packets
> relayed unmodified, but anyone else too, at this moment, this is purely done
> based on "it's in everyone's interest"...
> I must however admit we have frequently considered it no longer to be in
> our interest to relay packets to and from let's say Disney or SonyBMG or
> Paramount Pictures "unmodified", as they clearly are attacking isps and the
> concept of net neutrality as a whole... some regulation in that aspect would
> be appreciated.
> So whose interest would the EU rather represent, and do keep in mind, ISPs
> in the content industry can conduct business (and pay taxes) in any of the
> countries around the globe (we, for example, have had offers...)
> The internet industry provides a critical infrastructure, pretty much free
> of charge, and will route anyones packets anywere, unmodified, no questions
> asked, however, we do demand that countries we pay taxes to cover our ass,
> not the asses of some american companies that merely provide lousy
> "entertainment", which is of no interest to the european economy whatsoever.
> Artists are by no means "poor", they can work for their money like everyone
> else. (live performances, ordered works, and simply selling online directly,
> or including the advertisment into the work, skipping the "tv station" step
> ;), however fixing their business model isn't a task of the government(s),
> they simply have to come up with something that works without undemocratic
> corrupt laws by themselves.
> people have made music and books and sung songs since they lived in cages.
> no copyright was ever needed to "make" them do that.
> Why is this content-related only, and doesn't it mention -real- threats to
> the services based EU economy, such as ddos attacks and how
> to have them dealth with legally. (currently this is cumbersome process).
> Easily accessible and competent law enforcement is missing in most EU
> Most of the ISPs/Telcos just consider this "part of the game" and live with
> it, however it must be noted that it does cause significant economical
> damage, and in my opinion, should not be "just part of the game" as its
> actually serious crime, that simply lacks enforcement options at this time.
> (we have lists and lists and lists of hacked botnet nodes, for example, and
> getting them shut down and analysed is a pain in the ass.)
> 3: regarding your "other forms of censorship"
> In case a valid and applicable court order is present, we surely will
> disconnect those, and as those cases are not as controversial as some
> american firms claiming they would make a loss (which they can't prove
> anyway) as in the copyright cases, we usually would not make a problem of
> Now as for "fictional" child porn, we consider banning this a breach of the
> sexual freedom of "pedophiles", which are a segment of the population
> too which cannot be discriminated against, furthermore no factual damage
> is inflicted upon anyone or the state, so this lacks any legal basis, its
> more of opening a door to censorship.
> So, time to make laws that actually represent what -our- population and
> industry wants, rather than a bunch of kartels from one of our ex-colonies.
> Sven Olaf Kamphuis
> On behalf of
> CB3ROB Ltd. & Co. KG
> Member of Piratenpartei Deutschland
> Member of Piratenpartij Nederland
>> -------- Originele bericht --------
>> The European Commission has invited us, the Institute of International and
>> European Affairs (IIEA) (www.iiea.com) to undertake a very important
>> project. We have been commissioned to study current practices against
>> illegal internet content in the EU to determine whether any should be
>> adopted to prevent the spread of illegal violent radical content online.
>> This survey is an excellent opportunity for leading EU ISP's to directly
>> influence the course of European policy in this area. Your input and
>> participation is of critical importance.
>> Our objective is to understand ISPs' efforts to tackle illegal content,
>> they interact with hotlines and law enforcement, and what are the
>> and weaknesses of existing approaches to illegal content. I am wondering
>> would your organisation be able to please forward this short survey to
>> three or four four largest members and ask them to complete or complete it
>> yourself? Any assistance you could offer would be grately appreciated.
>> For further information on this study please see
>> http://www.iiea.com/staff?workingGroupUrlKey=violent-radicalisation. We
>> much look forward to receiving your input and bringing it to the attention
>> of the European Commission. We are contacting the major ISps across the EU
>> territory for their input as this is a superb chance for ISps to voice
>> opinions on what future policy should look like in this area.
>> *NOTE*: I appreciate ISPs are extremely busy but we would be extremely
>> appreciative if the ISPs could answer ALL questions enclosed and if you
>> respond to us with requisite survey results ideally no later than *TEN
>> DAYS*of receipt of this email.
>> 1. Is this something your organisation can help us with?
>> 2. On our website there is an RFC document
>> http://www.iiea.com/blogosphere/rfc2 We would greatly appreciate it if
>> could look at our section on your country and see if it is accurate. For
>> example have we included all the relevant information, is there anything
>> missing that we can add, is the information accurate?
>> Kind regards,
>> Adrian Bannon
>> Digital Policy Researcher
>> Institute of International and European Affairs
>> 8 North Great George's Street
>> Dublin 1
>> email: adrian.bannon at iiea.com
>> Tel: +353 (0) 18 74 90 02
>> Fax: +353 (0) 18 78 68 80
> Algemeen mailing list
> Algemeen at lists.piratenpartij.nl
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
More information about the pp.international.general