[pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback
ktetch at gmail.com
Wed Nov 24 15:49:30 CET 2010
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
On 11/23/2010 5:45 PM, Kenneth Peiruza wrote:
> This argument is bullshit.
> If PP-US is gonna loose the political party status because they don't
> condemn a crime, they will be condemning crimes 24x7.
Well, there aren't many groups that claim to share our principles, and
'prove' it by breaking the law on completely false and made up
pretenses. When such actions are done that risk associating us, or our
cause with criminals, marginalizing us and undermining our work, then
YES, in fact HELL YES we should.
If we were about attacking things, based on some crazy made up supposed
wrong, we'd have joined one of the crazy redneck militias going on about
how income Tax is unconstitutional, and how we need to 'put it to the
man' (my father-in-law is just such a person - he's still living off t
he stuff he stored in his bunker for y2k...)
Instead we are gathered, as pirates, to effect change POLITICALLY. As
such, we should maybe consider the facts, rather than jump up and down
beating our chests and saying 'we should do this, we should be FEARED!'
or other silly pseudo-macho stuff.
The *FACT* is, I went to O:P's own media coverage listing
(http://www.anonops.net/anonops/Media). On that list I found TWO
mainstream media articles, the rest were tech blogs/news sites. The tech
news sites, they cover this topic a lot in general, their readers tend
to ALREADY know about it. You can't make people aware of stuff they
already know. You can turn them off by your methods though. However, the
mainstream news can spread the message, and in this case, it was two of
the English-speaking world's biggest news agencies; Reuters and the BBC.
(there were two Guardian articles, but they focus entirely on the ACS
email leak, and the privacy implications thereof, and even then, it's
mentioned 'as a leak of personal information after it was attacked by 4chan'
Let's look at the BBC piece. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11371315
It's not exactly positive. A longtime BBC reader (such as myself, the
general public, or an MP) would potentially react negatively to this story.
Then we look at the Reuters story, which is most DEFINITELY a news
source read by the US Congress, and reprinted in countless newspapers
across the world. http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68J09F20100920
I don't think O:P could get a more negative article if it tried.
So Gee, wonder why we'd want, or need, to distance ourselves from their
actions. It's called POLITICS, it's one of the things POLITICAL PARTIES
*DO*. And just as US-style politics doesn't work in Spain, or Italy, or
wherever (so I don't go telling you how to run your political campaigns
and party), why do you (collectively) think that European-style politics
works in the US? It doesn't even work in the UK. We know our countries,
how they work, and what works politically.
Our functions, as Pirate Parties, are to affect change in a number of
areas, via the political process - either directly though being elected,
or through influence with other political parties. Not to support every
group, anarchist, or black-bloc protest, that claims to have the same
aims just because they claim it, when their results are clearly against
us. In the US, the actions of O:P did not support us, but hindered us.
In spain it might have helped Pirata, I don't know, and to be honest,
that's not my immediate focus or concern. And so what if DDoS' are legal
some places, they are NOT in the US, and that's the area the USPP is
concerned with. If something has only got to be legal somewhere else in
the world to be ok, then who's going to be first to start on the female
and BTW, as has been said many times, PPI was not involved, two parties
and two ONLY signed the letter. The only people who keep bringing up PPI
and involving them are those trying to cause trouble (Or O:P members,
and as we've already established, O:P is not so good with the facts).
Agent provocateurs, perhaps, trying to sow discord between the parties,
or those desperately trying to turn things away from the facts. Do you
want to know how NOT involved the PPI is? the USPP isn't even a member
I did a longer breakdown of why O:P doesn't work (at least in the US)
here http://t.co/DBclIXI Maybe it'll help explain things a little better
than I can in email.
Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
More information about the pp.international.general