[pp.int.general] PPi ask Anonymous to stop Payback

Wed Nov 24 18:07:38 CET 2010

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On 11/24/2010 10:35 AM, Kenneth Peiruza wrote:
> Dear Andrew,
> 
> Thank you for making this point clear: it is not about US law, it's
> about your morality and your desire to get published somewhere, by
> trying to capitalize O:P's media momentum by showing yourselves as a
> respectable alternative.

Yes, the vast media momentum of 4 negative mainsteam media articles.
WHAT momentum. It's another bullshit lie by O:P, because here they have
NO MOMENTUM, just negative press to undermine the ability for us to get
things done (or even get parties recognized). Great, the attack on a
Spanish Collecting society went down well in Spain, and isn't illegal
there yet. Pleased to hear it. HOWEVER, when a site or sites are
attacked in the US, and there is generally NEGATIVE mainstream reaction
in the US, don't go telling us we should be embracing them because it
suits you. ESPECIALLY when some of the targets are our most receptive
members of government. Down here in Georgia, we have a name for someone
who breaks the law, and harms their cause by attacking their supporters
(and O:P are NOT our supporters, as I'll get to in a bit) and that's
stupid. We have a name for someone that tries to support stupid actions,
with stupid arguments, I'll let you guess what it is.

> 
> You keep on jeopardizing this issue. Not blaming doesn't mean blessing.
> 
> BTW, have you thought that you just get them angry with you whilst they
> would probably be part of your activists and voters? That is
> American-style? I thought it was kamikaze-style...

You've not read our Constitution?

"We do not promote, advocate, support, or engage in illegal activities.
Where there is a disparity between individual action and the law, the
law wins. However, if the law is incorrect, based on incorrect or
invalid principles, or created because of political pressures rather
than because it's right, we hold that these laws should be changed.
Changing a law does not require civil disobedience."
You can find it here -
http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/Constitution#Article_9:_Acting_Within_the_Law_.26_Civil_Liberties

They might have similar aims (some might, some are agent provocateurs,
as with most black-bloc style attacks)

> 
> About European vs American style politics, that argument is quite
> offensive. People is rid of politicians, everywhere. Most Pirates belong
> to a Pirate Party because it is the easiest way to achieve law reforms
> in most countries, not because we want to be politicians, remember this.

Right, we don't want to be politicians (FWIW, I actually wanted in on a
manned Mars Mission) but that is what we must BECOME to do what we are
aiming.
> 
> May I ask you how big is PP-US? I just have facebook's fan figures:
> PiratPartiet has 36666 fans in a country with 11M people, Pirates de
> Catalunya has 5356 fans out of 7M people (we are just 4 months old),
> US-PP has 491 fans in a country with 280M people....

I didn't realise Facebook was everything.... Of course, with a VASTLY
more lax laws on political party formation (of what I'd give to have an
easy time like you do) you have funds, and thus the ability to promote
your party is greater, leading to... more facebook fans!

tell me, just what were the requirements for your party to form? Is it
collecting 10,000 signatures of voters supporting the party, within a
period of 60 days, as in the state of Arkansas (pop 2.8M, over 132,000
sq KM)
Maybe it's like Oklahoma (pop 3.8M, 181,000 sq km) where it's 45,000 (I
think, might be still around 80,000).

Or possibly California, where for the next cycle, to get on the ballot
there, they need to get 97,700 people to say 'yes, i will support the
pirate party' or 977,000 to say that they support allowing the party on
the ballot.

Or my adopted state of Georgia (pop of 9.8M, and 153,000 sq km) where we
need 39,244, and we have 180 days to collect them.

How does that compare with what you had to do in Catalunya (7.5M pop
across 12,000 sq km). We only have 4 states with a population density
close to yours (233.7/sq km) and that's New Jersey, Conneticut,
Massachusetts, and Rhode Island. 4 of the smallest states.

Maryland is the same size as Catalunya (8square miles bigger, but still)
and has 5.4M people, and we need 10,000 statements of support. BUT, the
problem with Maryland is.... half the people there live there because
they work in DC, they live there because they already have a political
party affiliation (same with Virginia)

Although we do have an officer in that area, his performance is not the
best...

We have zero money, because of the incredibly difficult, tortuous and
complex laws and regulations we have to follow. That, and our current
Treasurer has completely neglected his job. And since he's done such a
shit job
> 
> Looks like American-style politics doesn't work in the US anymore....
> 
> BTW, if a press release from Reuters is negative to GNU/Linux, are you
> gonna blame free software hackers? Do you agree with Chevron or Texaco
> when they blame environmental protesters because they throw paint in
> demonstrations? Oh yes, those dangerous hippies, we must kill them in
> order to defend our freedom to pollute! What do you think about Wikileaks?

We discussed Wikileaks August 10th. The position is
"the USPP make will make a statement of support for Wikileaks as long as
they seek transparency and openness, within the bounds of the law."

Note the last 6 words.
> 
> Void arguments are void, regardless of the place.

YES! YOU GET IT! That's exactly what I've been saying, because that's
how best to describe O:P's arguments. Void. As in 'completely without
substance'. Their Justification - imaginary. their targets, well, let's
just say that targeting the one US government department that has
actively worked against DRM, and expanded the ability to use copyrighted
works (the US Copyright Office) is stupid at best. As for the letter,
well, did you raed it? My 8yo son could have written something that made
more sense. "We, the leaders are writing this to tell you that the last
lot of leaders were lying, and we also want to tell you we don't have
any leaders" - pathetically stupid and self-contradictory.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kenneth
> 

- -- 
Andrew Norton
http://ktetch.blogspot.com
Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
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