[pp.int.general] Pirate Party of Germany replaces proprietary software with FLOSS(?)

[Mirco da Silva]

Am 02.08.2011 15:39, schrieb Sebastian Nerz:
> On Tue, 02 Aug 2011 15:13:27 +0200, Mirco da Silva wrote:
>> Am 02.08.2011 13:47, schrieb Sebastian Nerz
>>
>>> 3) The federal board of the Pirate Party Germany would have loved to use
>>> FLOSS.
>>> We would glady support the development of a FLOSS-alternative
>>
>> So, do you support an application to the national board and the national
>> convention to charge the FLOSS-Workgroup with the replacement of
>> proprietary party administration tools with FLOSS-Solutions?
> 
> No, why should I? 


Because you said so.

"We would glady support the development of a FLOSS-alternative"

How will you fullfill your pledge if not by supporting a official german
pirate party workgroup that developes a FLOSS-alternative?



> You don't need the approval of the board or the
> convention to
> start the development


I didnt ask for approval, but for support.

> and there is no reason for asking it.

I beg to differ.

The official support of the pirate party would be very helpful to find
developers - especially those who dont do politics but would love to
code for the pirate part movement (BTW; they are discussing details
while I write this on the pirates.de.talk.misc)

On the other hand..

why should developers spend there life- and worktime to make the german
pirate party FLOSS-compliant, when their leader (you) even refuses to
support them by just *saying* to officially support them?

"Hey, devs, we need you, but dont wanna have something to do with you.
But we need you. So please work for us. For free of course, because we
pay already 40K+X to the guys we have no problem to be associated with."

SRSLY?


> (Neither is there the possibility to wait the time it will take to
> develop a new
> solution)


Nobody said you should wait.

Use the $codeinablackbox as long as there is no FLOSS.

But as Richard said: "slow progress is better than no progress"

If you want progress.

Do you want progress?

So how do you think we can gain progress on this issue?

Is FLOSS an issue to you?


>>> So far not a single team and/or developer has contacted us wanting to
>>> develop a solution.
>>
>>
>> I've done a call for participation two and a half hours ago - via
>> status.net/ident.ca of course ;) - and until now three (german) devs
>> showed up their interest and asked for the specs.
>>
>> BTW, here are the specs (in german)
>>
>> http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/wiki//index.php?title=IT/Buchhaltungssoftware/Lastenheft
>>
> 
> Please contact the treasurer for the specs of the current solution


Done.

http://identi.ca/notice/80223734
https://twitter.com/#!/inkorrupt/status/98401140772847617



>>> The Pirate Party Germany exists for 5 years - so far
>>> we haven't produced a solution.
>>
>>
>> We are working on it. Now. ;)
> 
> That's very reassuring seeing that you knew for a couple of years that
> there is a need. 


</adhominem>

A little lesson in history:

Once upon a time I came up we the idea that there is a need.
A need for a CRM-System to help us doing public relations,
fundraising'n'stuff.
So I searched teh internets for a FLOSS that fit PR-needs and invented
CiviCRM to the german pirate party with a test-installation on my
personal server. It was in Nov. 2006:
http://forum.piratenpartei.de/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1530#p19127

But instead of using CiviCRM for the purposed tasks it was used only as
a member-management tool since 2009 or so.

And.. it is still in use until today.

Our (veto-mighty) treasurers hate it, I know, but knowbody ever aked me
to search for another tool that fit treasurer-needs.

And I read every single newsletter my party sends me. :-(

> Its not as if the search over the last months and years
> was secret ;)


Do you know Vogonism?

First described by Douglas Adams and later formalised by the *German
Pirate Party*, Vogonism terms a manner of acting such that information
is kept hidden in public sight. In case of complaints about the lack of
information available, vogonists usually *refer to the public
availability* of said hidden information.

A distinctive property of vogonism is the establishment of an
inscrutable network of communication channels and modes, as well as
inconsistent use of those: In that manner, information is avoided to be
present where recipients expect it due to related information already
having been transmitted over the same channel.

In human societies, a vogonic information system excels in limiting the
effective use of itself to a small circle of insiders, all the while
providing *plausible deniability*.

In computer science, the vogonic property can refer to both code that is
written so sloppily and without regard to readability that only a tiny
number of people (usually the authors, and not even those after a couple
of months) can comprehend it, as well as to code that has problems
understanding itself. Examples for the latter case would be a high to
very high percentage of data type conversions, or functions that become
non-total after a (pseudo)random number of uses.

http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Vogonism
http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Vogonismus
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Adams


BTW; since 2011 there is another CiviCRM instance running on german
pirate party servers.

Its called "Funkfeuer" (beacon) and is used to help us doing public
relations, fundraising'n'stuff.

And believe me, this invention didnt missed my attention:
http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/Funkfeuer#Dokumentation


>> We are 12K pirates in DE since 2009.
>> OMG, how did we survive in the last two years?
> 
> Going from crisis to crisis, thanks for asking. And you know that the
> auditors critized last years report.


When the $codeinablackbox solution rolls out on Jan, 1st 2012,
everything is fine, isn't it?

So please calm down, I dont want to take your toy away, its about a
complementary project, that maybe someday replaces what the state
dictates us due to de-facto-standards like DATEV.


> As we do need a DATEV-export in order to get an audit

"DATEV assumes that customers are using operating systems and
application programs of Microsoft, or Microsoft Windows, the Internet
Explorer and Microsoft Office. Data storage is via the Microsoft SQL
Server, since early 2006, still about this."

This proprietary de-facto-monopol of DATEV is what we have to deal with:

1.) we fullfill it now - with proprietary software | check
2.) we fight it now - with politically campaigns | nocheck
3.) we replace it then - with piratically alternatives | nocheck

Where is the progress, when we stop at 1.?

BTW; its ok to campaign anti-DATEV, but its way mor cool to campaign
pro-ALTERNATIVE.

Especially coz we deal with a monopoly where there "is no alternative".

Hey, and look:

"DATEV has recently begun to provide partial program interfaces to
OpenOffice.org and Star Office"

After rain comes sunshine. ;)


>>> I'm looking forward to seeing a FLOSS that can handle membership,
>>> finance controlling, donation-controlling (and certified donation
>>> receipt-building accepted by the tax authorities) usable by non-nerds.
>>
>> I guess the state administrations that we demands to use FLOSS have way
>> more higher standards that must be fullfilled.
> 
> And they have much more money ;)


You know best, and the german state gives us money in large amounts e,g,
to be able to manage our members and do politics.

We have the opprtunity to match both goals in one task.



>>> But you will excuse if I dont believe in it.
>>
>> So, how can you support something, that you dont believe in?
> 
> I do believe in FLOSS. 

\o/

> I just don't believe that (at this moment) we are
> capable of developing a party-wide accounting tool. 

But, you ARE (at this moment) developing a party wide accounting tool.


> We simply dont have
> the manpower - and we have much more important things to do (e.g.
> politics because we are a party and not a software-company ;) )


Thats why we've outsourced the development of a proprietary party wide
accounting tool to a corporation:

Advantage Software Consulting GmbH
http://www.advantage-software.de/

They get 40€+ 5K/pa Euros to "find" developers that do the job for us,
right?

So, where is the problem to outsource the developement of a FLOSS party
wide accounting tool to a pirate party workroup:

http://wiki.piratenpartei.de/AG_FLOSS

We are 15 pirates there so far, and with a yearly budget of only 4K€ we
have ten years to promote the project i.e. at developer/hacker
conventions, find and motivate developers, make it work, and dont even
have matched the costs of the prpritary solution, that costs us 5K per
annum only for maintenance.

Because "we simply dont have the manpower"?

Do you know how many "inactive" members we have, that are coders &
designers and love coding and designing, but are "inactive" in terms of
political activity?

Is 4K€/pa too much to make them active members, get new ones due to a
cool project and can pracrically use an alternative that we poltically
demand when we have succeded in our agenda?

Ok, how about 400 Euros?

With this we can produce some flyer and badges, and visit at least 1
convention.

If we get 100 Supporter for 400€ in 2011, would you give us 4000€ to
skyrocket in 2012?


>> Referring to our political agenda, too?
> 
> Please stop ad-hominem discussions. 

???

> You are already using far too many
> on the national discussion list.

</adhominem>

!!!


> If you want the ppi to support your development please contact the board
> of the ppi - 


The PPI board first of all will ask: whats about your national board.
Why doesnt they support you?

What should I say then, Sebastian?

Our national board would love to support the developement, but does not,
because they "dont give a fuck about FLOSS" as one one of our national
judges recently said? ?


> I am a member of the national board, not the international.
> Easy mistake to be made ;)


Not for me, thank you.



>>> Its annoying that
>>> we spend more time discussing tools then we spend discussing e.g. the
>>> european plans to monitor bank accounts and flight-plans...
>>
>>
>> ACK, so lets go ahead and solve these issue asap.
>>
>> How many (german pirate partys) money can we exspect from you (the
>> national board) to get the international developement started?
> 
> First order of work: Get the team together and started.


How did Advantage Software Consulting GmbH react when you gave them this
statement?


cheers,
mirco