[pp.int.general] Love and Solidarity to our Tunisian Brothers and Sisters

Sat Jan 15 07:40:00 CET 2011

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On 1/15/2011 12:05 AM, Jay Emerson wrote:
> Andrew, you talk from your computer chair and I talk from experience. 
> It takes guts to get out there in the streets and all I wanted to do is
> let them know I'm with them in spirit in Tunisia.  I have felt the
> truncheon and the gas, the riot shield and the cold steel of the cuffs,
> the uncertainty of my right to due process in this country and the
> concern of world citizens that fear my government could do the same to
> them at anytime as well.

You said it was because you decided to break into a building during a
protest, and squared up to the cops. As for your 'uncertainty over due
process', you can't get an Oscar for an email, so drp the act (unless
you have some actual evidence that due process was interfered with,
rather than paranoia).

You were not forced, by circumstance or otherwise, into that protest, it
was something you DECIDED to do, as in you had this issue, and you
decided you wanted to protest, and then you DECIDED you wanted to take
things further (and I know that because a) you've said so, proudly,
including your first attempt at USPP vice-chair; b) if you hadn't, you'd
have made a lot of front pages) So trying to make out you've been
oppressed is ludicrous, when in actuality you actively and willingly
took part in a law-breaking action, while part of a protest. It's not
like you're Ian Tomlinson, or a situation even remotely similar
(although actions similar to your boats were a major cause of that
situation)

> 
> If that street fighting past marks me as a bad person in your or
> anyone's view, then you can go fuck yourself.
> 
When you deliberately go out of your way to escalate things to violence,
yes that DOES make you a bad person. Bad to your fellow protestors there
with you, and around you. Bad to anyone that believes in the same
topics, but is now associated with violence because of your actions.

When you take unilateral action to raise and advance conflict and go
beyond what everyone else wants, just to prove how 'hard core' you are,
you're not only a bad person, you're a complete liability. I thought
pretty much everyone explained this to you when the vote of no
confidence was brought against you last month, and passed. When you make
statements like this as well, it just underscores why people actively
don't want you in any role of responsibility - you just plain don't know
how to behave appropriately.

> When every legal channel is exhausted and is so obviously corrupt, well
> some people are moved to action.  That's all I was saying in this yet
> you troll from your computer chair and dare imply you are somehow more
> moral and intelligent than I?

And yet, In the UK last month, in your example above, and in your
November actions, the legal channels hadn't been exhausted, and were
dismissed as corrupt because, it seems, they were too hard, and not
'hard core' enough. You don't get the image you seem to crave by writing
well thought out documents setting out facts, and following up with well
considered discussions. To get the air of 'machismo' you need, frankly,
boorish behavour and loutish activities, to prove what a 'hard man' you are.

If you really want to have a loud, public action that gets something
done, and shows you really believe in your cause, why not follow
Mohammed Bouazizi's example.

> 
> Allow me to say this then, even though I feel I have done a lot more in
> my life than others in struggling for a cause, I never believed to be
> better than anyone else.  I have always believed that within all of us
> is a special characteristic that when brought together as a whole shows
> its complete form and true greatness to overcome the worst of situations.
> 
You may have done more 'action', put more 'effort' in, but what really
matters is the end effect. If we were both chopping down trees, you use
an axe, and I use a chainsaw. You will certainly put a lot more effort
in, make more noise and look impressive doing it, but I'm going to cut
down ten trees for your one, so has done more?

To put it another way, it's using the right tool in the right way. Your
way seems to forgo the 'right tool', and stick with a hammer. And as the
saying goes, 'when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail'.

> Today, in Tunisia, my theory in that sense was proven right.  For those
> like yourself?  You're no more than a nuisance of skewed opinion while
> the rest of us move forward.
> 
I'm wondering if you've really understood what's happened there. I've
spent most of today talking to Tunisians, as well as a good chunk of
yesterday and even then I'm still working through all the nuances of
whats been going on there for the past month. This quote from one of
them, yesterday, gives a slightly different perspective on things "hmm
hearing gunshots at night, knowing that my friends were in jail, knowing
that my people are dying, doesn't help u know". It's the kind of fear
you get from oppression, a maudlin desperation. Not the jolly 'yeah!
lets go break shit!" attitude you revel in promoting.

> So hate on hater, we shinin' bright!

You carry on shining bright. Me, I'll go looking back at what happened,
and see what I can learn, so maybe next time, I could possibly do
something that will reduce the death toll; the pain and suffering of the
families, including those who just happened to be in the wrong place at
the wrong time. And while I'm pleased at what's happened there, I'm also
greatly saddened by the cost, one that was too heavy in blood.
> 
> :-D

I'm glad you are pleased, but my thoughts are with those who have lost
loved ones in this, and that takes any thought of a smile from my face,
virtual or otherwise. Clearly, it's not that important to you,
especially as, in many of my discussions, the same point has come up
time and again - that nothing much will actually change. Another quote,
from this evening (done over IRC, so SPaG is not perfect)

"i don't trust this guy he's ben ali marionette. it's fucked up now
nobody understands a shit even the so called new president, but i know
for sure he's not trustworthy"
and
<them>and that's what most of the tunisian wants.
<K`Tetch> a clean slate, in effect?
<them> yes, and so far we didn't get that. we're afraid ben ali put left
his friends there to cover up his crap
<K`Tetch> there are promises of elections within 6 months, do you
believe that?
<them> he didn't confim now, he said tomorrow morning we'll decide on
that, with other partis, but there are no other trusted parties, legal
parties

Another said
"but as i say, we're very sceptical concerning this new governement. the
prime minister el ghannouchi, used to be very close to the former
president. actually, he never said ben ali quitted, just "suspended".
Now, People in kasserine, mostly advocates, are still holding marches to
ask for the real appliance of the constitution"

(I have removed their name for now, until I sort out attribution tomorrow)

So, you might claim "It's worked" in Tunisia, and yet the people there
aren't sure if anything has really changed, government wise. Who to
believe? Hmm, Who has a better idea of what's going on there....

We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Andrew Norton

> 
> Jay Emerson
> Administrative Officer
> Pirate Party of New York
> 
> On Jan 14, 2011 11:46 PM, "Andrew Norton" <ktetch at gmail.com
> <mailto:ktetch at gmail.com>> wrote:
> On 1/14/2011 11:31 PM, Jay Emerson wrote:
>>>> Well Andrew, as they say in my native land of New York, "Fuck You".
>>>> It's our state's motto. <3
>>>>
> And about as much as I expected in the way of intelligent discourse.
> 
>>>> How's 30 Millibank holding up? :-P
> 
> Did you mean 30 Millbank, HQ of the UK Conservative party? I don't know,
> but I'll ask some of my old school friends, they'll know (a number were
> Conservative party candidates in the last election there, and are
> currently councilors - it's handy, knowing people)
> 
> If you were referring to the protests there last month by the students,
> over the tuition-fee increases, just remember how well they worked out.
> Oh yeah, the fee increases PASSED, and the protests didn't work, and
> many of those that took part and talked to the press couldn't even do
> basic maths, and in the main REDUCED public opposition to the fee
>> increases.
> 
> Now, why didn't it work? My money's on them being 'shouty shouty, stompy
> stompy, smashy smashy' instead of 'thinky thinky, talky talky'
> 
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- -- 
Andrew Norton
http://ktetch.blogspot.com
Tel: (352)6-KTETCH [352-658-3824]
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