[pp.int.general] PP IT and Its Non-Democratic Organization

Sat Dec 22 22:50:29 CET 2012

Simon,

Thanks for your opinion. I will defend differing opinions to my death. And thanks for adding to my list of people who will always be shown an open.

My previous list of messengers who are welcome to join with their ideas, and be included participation and vote...

Facists
Monarchists
Communists
Socialists
Radical Women
Unionists
Democrats
Republicans
Libertarians
Lyden LaRouchians
Ron Paulites

Thanks for your list below. I will encourage them also to join...

conspiracy theorists
Social Democrats

Green Fascists 
National Anarchists

member of another Party

new members if they feel they don't agree our platform
hijackers
impersonators

mass-joiners

parasites

organised take us over attempters
hate filled venom injectors

what they thought in the past

those who have been refused by other parties

To which I will add these to my list of people who have a welcome door, open to join this pirate's party.

Those who firmly believe in Free Speech
Those who have read GETTING TO YES

Those who think there can be Peace on Earth in Eighteen Months
Those who want an end to all wars

I remain sincerely yours,

John Dickinson

=access           Since 1991   
"Be the change that you want 
to see in the world." 
M. K. Gandhi 

________________________________
 From: Simon Frew <simon.frew at pirateparty.org.au>
To: john dickinson <jrdickinson at yahoo.com>; Pirate Parties International -- General Talk <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net> 
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP IT and Its Non-Democratic Organization

Between that centre right guy and the weird conspiracy theorists, I wish Italian Pirates the best of luck!

Italian politics really is bizarre. Tell us all how it goes.

We have a few conspiracy theorists and a dodgy ex-politician in our Party, thankfully they don't have any real influence. We have been warned about the ex-politician by his former comrades.

There is a tradition of Marxist groups and Social Democrats mass-joining, hi-jacking and destroying emerging movements here in Australia. Being aware of this we built some defences into our Constitution. People aren't allowed to be a member of another Party and the National Council has the right to refuse new members if they feel the member doesn't agree our platform or organisation. In part we had to exclude members of other Parties to make sure we were OK to register. We have had to refuse a few people who are members of other Parties, they just liked us, and weren't an organised attempt to take us over.

I have seen Fascists try to impersonate and hijack a range of different movements, including Green Fascists and National Anarchists. Seems to be a strategy to attach themselves like a parasite and inject their hate filled venom into growing movements, they also seem to universally fail. I hope the tradition of failure continues.

Of course, people can change and what they think now might have nothing to do with what they thought in the past. From the Google translations of those articles I assume that is not the case.

Other than Carlito's claims I don't see anything undemocratic in how Italian Pirates are running things. Maybe a few things could be done better, but who couldn't say that?

Cheers

Simon Frew

On Sun, Dec 23, 2012 at 7:01 AM, john dickinson <jrdickinson at yahoo.com> wrote:

Zbrigniew,
>
>
>Please don't advise me to set a filter if I am not interested. It should be obvious, I am very interested in et al. I will read et al waiting for issues of outside the party to resume.
> 
>I remain sincerely yours,
>
>
>John Dickinson
>
>
>=access           Since 1991   
>"Be the change that you want 
>to see in the world." 
>M. K. Gandhi 
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Zbigniew Łukasiak <zzbbyy at gmail.com>
>To: john dickinson <jrdickinson at yahoo.com>; Pirate Parties International -- General Talk <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net> 
>Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:25 AM
>
>Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] PP IT and Its Non-Democratic Organization
> 
>
>On Sat, Dec 22, 2012 at 7:41 PM, john dickinson <jrdickinson at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Dear et al,
>>
>> Sure, I will reply to this message. This domination of the email list with
>> name calling and accusations does nothing to advance the cause of Pirates,
>> unless the purpose of this list is to establish the reputation of Pirates as
>> bickerers.
>> I am new to the party, but I have been a pirate since the '60's, an honest
>> pirate in the true definition of the word.
>> I joined WAPP, and after two meets decided to form another party. Without
>> saying anything disparaging except that I could not say the acronym out
>> loud, I wanted to use my resources to get members to the causes that I
>> thought were important and urgent. Following this list (I read everything) I
>> feel that the important causes have
 been placed on a shelf to be replaced by
>> bickering.
>> I formed the Seattle International Pirate Party, and I am embarking to
>> encourage towns, communities and neighborhoods to form their own Parties. I
>> fly the flag on a half mast, verses the flag flying at half mast, to
>> indicate that the cause is above the mast of my thoughts and opinions. I
>> don't want to move the flag down so that it flies at half mast and then move
>> it out of my life because I might feel embarrassed by the petty/public
>> attacks against others. I have a goal to gain 2o,ooo members in the next six
>> months.
>>
>> ? Is there a way to keep the bickering out of the public view? probably not.
>> I guess I am just ranting, but perhaps everyone should read Getting To Yes
>> before self destruction.
>
>I actually believe that this bickering as you describe it has a
>purpose.  The meaning of the word
 democratic and above all Pirate
>Party is far from being obvious and we need to discuss it before we
>form something that could be called our consensus.  If we don't reach
>a consensus in these matters then sooner or later it will bring
>troubles - because you cannot have an organisation without identity
>without defining what is acceptable and what is not.
>
>It is true that this discussion could be done in a better looking way
>- but it is better when it happens then when it did not, even if that
>means this public bickering.  I hope people can set filters to their
>mailboxes to filter it out if they are not interested.
>
>
>--
>Zbigniew Lukasiak
>http://brudnopis.blogspot.com/
>http://perlalchemy.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________
>Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
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