[pp.int.general] R: R: R: PP IT and Its Non-Democratic Organization

[Carlito]

Da: Anouk Neeteson 

> Both Carlo and Carlito (how coincedental cynical the names), 

:)

> we get your points. Now please proove that you can solve 
> this as a liquid democracy would.
> Find a consensus, even when it will be through opposition. 
> Proove that what you both claim, being the coorperative 
> instead of a war machine.

Hi Anouk,

I really wish it could be so easy, like in a "normal" and real democratic
process/debate. 
Unfortunately this is not the case. 
This mailing list is the last "oasis" where I can be free to talk,
unfortunately for all of you! :)
They expulsed me from Liquid Feedback (Permanent Assembly) and didn't insert
the 35 new Pirates in it, canceled my subscription from the PP IT mailing
list, blocked me on Facebook and regularly censor me on the Forum. 

Look, I found a lot of "consensus", more than anybody else, this is exactly
the problem, paradoxally: I involved more than 150 people in PP IT and
officially certified 35 of them to enter in the Assembly but Carlo VonLynx
and his friends stopped them with a vote in the so-called "Permanent
Assembly" with (if I well remember) just ONE vote of difference and 30 total
voters. 
It means that a small group of around 16 people stopped 150 new,
enthusiastic Pirates that joined, motivated by me, the movement.

I'm not the kind of person who like to say "I'm cool". Just because I'm not
at all, sincerely. I simply work in the IT and Communication field since 15
years now,. I currently work for the main Italian journalist (Michele
Santoro) and his information tv show (Servizio Pubblico) as a Manager. So I
know a few people and a few people trust me as soon as I propose "hey, the
Pirate Party is something cool, come in!". That's all. No paranoia, no fake
accounts, no "take over". Nothing. 
We are just facing the maintaining of the power and the controlling of the
party from Carlo VonLynx and his friends.

Please note: They (and someone in this list also) called it a "take over".
In a company you take over when you substitute the old Board. 
But there's no take over in Liquid Feedback because there isn't control by
default (or, it shouldn't!). 
The decisional process should be "liquid" by definition.
If they call it "take over" it means they are controlling it! :)
That's the point.
JUST CRAZY...!!! :)

I'm just reporting facts. 
And please note: this is not a personal question: 
The thread began with a "help request" from Paolo (PP IT) asking for signing
a document/endorsement against a "fascist fork" to the members of this
mailing list.
I'm simply explaining why in Italy we are facing a fork a week: they don't
have a democratic structure involving new Pirates in a common project and
common values.

Now, you are of course free to decide if supporting them or not, I'm just
showing some facts IMHO you should consider carefully before taking any
decision.
I will not.

Carlo