[pp.int.general] Food & Energie
Fabricio Do Canto
oinfiltrado23 at googlemail.com
Thu Feb 23 20:35:34 CET 2012
The international general mail list the last days is discussing meet and
food consume.
Those themes cross countries political borders. The last facts regarding
suger cane ethanol plants and the Belo Monte Damm in Brazil that couses
massive actions against human rights. As European companies profit from
those projects and the Brazilian government approves I suggest to work out
a petition for german and brasilian liquid feedback. What that means that
pirates from two countries address the same issue from different angle I do
not know but see that PPI should take an active function regarding it. Food
and energy are transnational themes and so should it be discussed.
Warm regards from the Pirate Cave,
Fabricio
Sorry for the brevity - sent from my mobile. Meta regards!
On Feb 23, 2012 7:59 PM, <
pp.international.general-request at lists.pirateweb.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Artificial meat (Pat Maechler aka Valio)
> 2. Re: Artificial meat (Marko Mitrovic)
> 3. Re: Artificial meat (David Arcos)
> 4. Re: Artificial meat (Marko Mitrovic)
> 5. Re: Artificial meat (Pat Maechler aka Valio)
> 6. Re: Artificial meat (Scott Elcomb)
> 7. Re: Artificial meat (Gijs Overvliet)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:26:48 +0100
> From: Pat Maechler aka Valio <pirate at valio.ch>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Subject: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat
> Message-ID:
> <CANyq0C=PO3nCeOev6bm7MRUi3yTLp7iK+UX9cPQ=TEccqsXFxA at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> This could be a real breakthrough technology!
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E
> They intend to present the first experiment by this autumn
>
> Keep in mind that
> a) a vast amount of resources for agriculture are allocated to meat
> production
> b) commercialized meat production becomes more and more ethically
> questionable; while some have ethical reservations over stem-cell
> research, I doubt that they are to be weighted higher in general when
> they come into comparison with the reduction of suffering for animals
>
> -pat
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:34:41 +0100
> From: Marko Mitrovic <archamond at gmail.com>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat
> Message-ID:
> <CAFLoSqCcMXvNPJ50seEdAnMoWF03KiAsrS+zgiwEXEJQf4BR9A at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I'm not putting something like that anywhere near my mouth.
>
> Besides, aren't we in principle against GMO food and similar
> mumbo-jumbo? Well, this is rising it on whole new level.
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Pat Maechler aka Valio <pirate at valio.ch>
> wrote:
> > This could be a real breakthrough technology!
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E
> > They intend to present the first experiment by this autumn
> >
> > Keep in mind that
> > a) a vast amount of resources for agriculture are allocated to meat
> production
> > b) commercialized meat production becomes more and more ethically
> > questionable; while some have ethical reservations over stem-cell
> > research, I doubt that they are to be weighted higher in general when
> > they come into comparison with the reduction of suffering for animals
> >
> > -pat
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:36:43 +0100
> From: David Arcos <david.arcos at gmail.com>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat
> Message-ID:
> <CAFB-oW0hyURTxo3fuFxE4iwT4W8vkVdmrOf+wFpVy0tE4_EMpg at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Related: http://imgur.com/ZR3Hy
>
> ;)
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Marko Mitrovic <archamond at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm not putting something like that anywhere near my mouth.
> >
> > Besides, aren't we in principle against GMO food and similar
> > mumbo-jumbo? Well, this is rising it on whole new level.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Pat Maechler aka Valio <pirate at valio.ch
> >
> > wrote:
> > > This could be a real breakthrough technology!
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E
> > > They intend to present the first experiment by this autumn
> > >
> > > Keep in mind that
> > > a) a vast amount of resources for agriculture are allocated to meat
> > production
> > > b) commercialized meat production becomes more and more ethically
> > > questionable; while some have ethical reservations over stem-cell
> > > research, I doubt that they are to be weighted higher in general when
> > > they come into comparison with the reduction of suffering for animals
> > >
> > > -pat
> > > ____________________________________________________
> > > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:41:59 +0100
> From: Marko Mitrovic <archamond at gmail.com>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat
> Message-ID:
> <CAFLoSqCOUBEf9wRp0ft-zk9jKRZsd-6ifdK4s9+AqdftonEE8w at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Besides, what is exactly animal suffering? All life forms including
> humans eventually become food for some other life form. It's called
> life, not suffering.
> And many of livestock animals are with humans for so long that they
> would simply go extinct very fast if let back to wilderness. How is
> that ethical?
>
> Nothing compares to organic food. Cows grown on mechanical trees are
> not organic food, it's GMO :)
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:36 PM, David Arcos <david.arcos at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Related: http://imgur.com/ZR3Hy
> >
> > ;)
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:34 PM, Marko Mitrovic <archamond at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm not putting something like that anywhere near my mouth.
> >>
> >> Besides, aren't we in principle against GMO food and similar
> >> mumbo-jumbo? Well, this is rising it on whole new level.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Pat Maechler aka Valio <
> pirate at valio.ch>
> >> wrote:
> >> > This could be a real breakthrough technology!
> >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryIpyi-54E
> >> > They intend to present the first experiment by this autumn
> >> >
> >> > Keep in mind that
> >> > a) a vast amount of resources for agriculture are allocated to meat
> >> > production
> >> > b) commercialized meat production becomes more and more ethically
> >> > questionable; while some have ethical reservations over stem-cell
> >> > research, I doubt that they are to be weighted higher in general when
> >> > they come into comparison with the reduction of suffering for animals
> >> >
> >> > -pat
> >> > ____________________________________________________
> >> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >> ____________________________________________________
> >> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> >> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> >> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 18:21:00 +0100
> From: Pat Maechler aka Valio <pirate at valio.ch>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat
> Message-ID:
> <CANyq0C=71C3hWx7-gxKv0+g8EqijYH=bhfFYi_d8FnPGJTytsg at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> are we against GMO?
> I don't know; I haven't seen this in my party, but I think there's
> certainly at least one pirate party to be found that is against it.
> I know that there are several problems if you want to use GMO in some
> areas, and if you want not to use it in others (i.e. it creates a
> whole new dependency, because farmers are forced to buy new grain for
> each generation, as the grain has to use terminator genes)
> That argument is likely not the problem here as you just grow fat and
> muscular cells in a lab that can't reproduce.
>
> Also what do you mean when you say "and similar mumbo-jumbo"?
> There's a wide range how one can interpret that sentence :-P
>
> Given that there are GMO I find the idea of mandatory FLOSS like
> regulations intriguing
>
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2010-September/007517.html
>
> Of course: The idea would not be to let the livestock "back" into
> wilderness. That would be ridiculous. But it's not as if you could not
> reduce over-commercialized lifestock over a certain timespan.
>
> BTW: I think organic food has it's advantages, but also disadvantages.
> We could go into a long discussion here, but that was actually not my
> intention ;)
>
> -pat
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 13:42:20 -0500
> From: Scott Elcomb <psema4 at gmail.com>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat
> Message-ID:
> <CAEx-jsNstvtpw=Avfeuer3LgAA63eMaqPaP0p7f8D1qAMea6ww at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Marko Mitrovic <archamond at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I'm not putting something like that anywhere near my mouth.
> >
> > Besides, aren't we in principle against GMO food and similar
> > mumbo-jumbo? Well, this is rising it on whole new level.
>
> In general, I support most research into methods of sustainable human
> development while minimizing our impact on the planet. In GMO, I have
> serious concerns about the rush to market, the excessive application
> of "intellectual property" law and the lack of adequate, and thorough,
> testing.
>
> The question of it being "mumbo-jumbo" is key: Is it sound? Is it
> safe? More importantly, will it be rushed to market before being
> proved-so?
>
> Perhaps even more important, will the "IP" be used to help solve the
> worlds problems or will it be exploited simply for the financial
> benefit of a few stakeholders?
>
> --
> ? Scott Elcomb
> ? @psema4 on Twitter / Identi.ca
>
> ? Atomic OS: Self Contained Microsystems
> ? http://code.google.com/p/atomos/
>
> ? Member of the Pirate Party of Canada
> ? http://www.pirateparty.ca/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 19:58:57 +0100
> From: Gijs Overvliet <govervliet at gmail.com>
> To: Pirate Parties International -- General Talk
> <pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net>
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Artificial meat
> Message-ID:
> <CADYaiO1MQycKEmBy=1rAWFxoyTrLOZspjYKHOssWr-9imi5GnQ at mail.gmail.com
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> >From what I understand, pirates are not against GMO. However, in practice
> GMO's usually are patented, and pirates are against THAT.
>
> In this case, I wonder if it's even genetically modified. Surely it's
> modified, but genetically?
>
> Still, I'm not going to eat that meat...
>
> 2012/2/23 Pat Maechler aka Valio <pirate at valio.ch>
>
> > are we against GMO?
> > I don't know; I haven't seen this in my party, but I think there's
> > certainly at least one pirate party to be found that is against it.
> > I know that there are several problems if you want to use GMO in some
> > areas, and if you want not to use it in others (i.e. it creates a
> > whole new dependency, because farmers are forced to buy new grain for
> > each generation, as the grain has to use terminator genes)
> > That argument is likely not the problem here as you just grow fat and
> > muscular cells in a lab that can't reproduce.
> >
> > Also what do you mean when you say "and similar mumbo-jumbo"?
> > There's a wide range how one can interpret that sentence :-P
> >
> > Given that there are GMO I find the idea of mandatory FLOSS like
> > regulations intriguing
> >
> >
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/pipermail/pp.international.general/2010-September/007517.html
> >
> > Of course: The idea would not be to let the livestock "back" into
> > wilderness. That would be ridiculous. But it's not as if you could not
> > reduce over-commercialized lifestock over a certain timespan.
> >
> > BTW: I think organic food has it's advantages, but also disadvantages.
> > We could go into a long discussion here, but that was actually not my
> > intention ;)
> >
> > -pat
> > ____________________________________________________
> > Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> > pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> > http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
> >
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