[pp.int.general] PPEU at the PPI GA

[Justus Römeth]

No Mirco. PPI is not meant to be for everything international, there are
good reasons to have a seconf group focussing on Europe:

- PPI was meant for spreading the pirate movement, helping new pirates
setting up a party in their country and prepare their first elections, and
the likes
- PPI was furthermore meant to coordinate Pirate Party politics all over
the world (not just in Europe)
- For this reason it was chosen in the form of an NGO, not a party. It's
goal is not to streamline the party politics of all countries, or to make
sure the different national election programmes are compatible

- In order to keep goal nr 1, which is clearly more on the agenda in small
partie, alive, and not let nr 2 overshadow it, it was chosen to work with
the 1 country=1 vote rule, even though that is not really democratic.

Now, what we found out is that PPI has been very Eurocentric. Remote
delegation has not worked very well, but the cost for attending the
conferences was too high for the majority of parties outside of Europe.
Nobody who stood for office but was not at a GA physically had been elected
as of late, and even though it was planned (and 'promised') otherwise,
there were no offers to hold a GA outside of Europe that satisfied the
majority of a board enough to plan the next GA there.

If we now plan to set up PPI like a political party (with internal direct
democracy) and plan to coordinate European election campaigns within PPI
the rest of the trust the non European Pirate have in us will wane, they
will (rightfully) think that we don't take them or their concerns and needs
serious. In order to avoid that, and to transform PPI to meet our European
needs, it would make much more sense to fulfill those needs by founding a
new political body that can help us plan the EU elections together, and set
up things like liquid feedback on a European scale (which will be A LOT of
work with translations and the likes).

I doubt that will be possible for the 2014 agenda, but that does not mean
that we should not work on it. It also does not mean that we should not try
to coordinate a political programme for that election, but we will have to
implement it on the national level of each participating party for 2014,
not at once at the European level.

If you disagree, please point out where you see flaws in my logic, and how
we can coordinate (and possibly integrate) in Europe further using PPI
without pissing the American and Oceanic Pirates off further.
If you want to help, feel free to do so on the PPEU mailing list or pad
instance.
If you disagree with my negative assessment of the state of LF concerning a
European level, feel free to point it out, or to work on a way to overcome
the problems of language, remote voting, decentralized GAs and the likes. I
think it will be possible to work those issues out, but a lot of water will
need to flow down the Nile before it will be done.

Kind regards
-J


On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Mirco da Silva <
mirco.da.silva at piracy-international.org> wrote:

> Am 07.03.2012 17:18, schrieb Thomas Gaul:
> > Dear Mirco da Silva!
>
>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> why so serious..?
>
>
> > And what shall this instiution do? You forgot to mention it. Maybe
> > you have forgotten that this is a compromize to see how the
> > financing within the party is to be more just.
> >
> > Had you had a better idea?
> >
> > I do not see any Borg activities in it, could you please explain it
> > ? (In such a way that our fellow pirates who are not familiar with
> > PP-DE internals will understand it...)
>
>
> Thank you for verfying my "not true, we have a delegation system in
> DE" statement. (f you like to discuss german internals please write to
> pirates.de.talk.misc)
>
> On topic:
>
> We dont really need another party/incorporation/administration,
> because of the I in PPI.
>
> We need an international instance i.e. of Liquid Feedback[1] or
> another liquid democracy tool to aggregate our ideas and opinions, and
> by this to be the first political movement with a unified agenda for
> the european elections in 2014.
>
>
> jm2c
> -mds
>
> [1]http://liquidfeedback.org/mission/
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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>
>
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