[pp.int.general] Tyrant banks, walk the plank!
Antonio Garcia
ningunotro at hotmail.com
Thu May 17 15:43:46 CEST 2012
Capitalism does not even exist ;) , at least not as some fixed entity. It is merely the optimization of whatever circumstances come along (if they can shape the better ones, they will) to get the best possible results for a certain survival logic... only the logic does not change, all the rest is optional. That is why the left can not beat capitalism... they fight situations, not the logic.
The fundamentals of our problems are to be found in human psyche and its survival strategies. There is where the reasoning that initiates it all lies... logical thinking processes. All the rest, be it meddling with politics, economy, finance, or you name it... are merely the building of "instruments" to implement the same reasoning again and again.
It does not serve our purpose to go after all the dirty tricks one by one.
Give a man a fish (the solution for one dirty trick) and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man how to fish (how to find the dirty tricks by himself)... and you'll have him busy for a lifetime.
Antonio.
PP-ES
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 12:47:46 +0200
From: charly.pache at gmail.com
To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Tyrant banks, walk the plank!
The problem is not capitalism, the problem is ultra-capitalism with no other aim as money making, speculation where a few can make a lot of money out of the fall of the many. There we should get involved. Maybe with allowing our governments (and why not the citizen) to lend money directly from their national banks at a low rate (instead of doing it through commercial banks at higher rates, which increases the global debt). Maybe through taxing financial transactions.
There's an initiative for the introduction of the basic income here in Switzerland as well, the PP-CH is supporting it. I guess anyway we are on the verge of a societal revolution, where more and more people will be kicked out of the 'arbeitsmarkt' (because of increasing automation, less consumption, ..) and will have time to think about what they want to do out of their life. People will organize themselves again (crowd financing, crowd sourcing, ..), be more free again. We will go back to more human activities, we will work more locally and developp new activities. And this, everyone of us can start doing it right today ;)
(could you please blacklist me, i like too much reading and writing on this list..or please stop rise interesting topics ;) )
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Justus Römeth <squig at dfpx.de> wrote:
Yeah, but I think the fact that we have a system that has such intertwined banks and basically socializes their risks means that capitalism is not working for them anymore and I think leaving the system like that is basically corruption.
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 3:25 AM, Kenneth Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat> wrote:
No, I'm not against German banks, even lesser with German people and
not at all with PP-DE.
It was just an appointment to make it clear why the German
government puts extra pressure in cutbacks:
Spanish government has put around 300.000 M€ into the Spanish banks
that owe debt to German banks. that is almost a 20% of the budget
every year. This is to save Spanish banks from cracking down, sure,
but if they crack, the ones that would crack just afterwards would
be the German lenders. That is what I meant with my email, that
Merkel requires cutbacks in southern Europe to save the German
banks.
Regards,
Kenneth
Al 17/05/12 02:52, En/na Justus Römeth ha escrit:
So you think this money goes into the German banks
because of benevolence? I think it is just another form of
corruption in a way. Well hidden, but there is no real reason to
do it other than politician saying that it is 'without
alternative' (Oh how I hate those words!)
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:15 AM, Kenneth
Peiruza <kenneth at pirata.cat>
wrote:
That is a little bit
simplistic and pre-judgement...
Corruption exists, and is shameful and harmful, but
corruption doesn't evaporate a 10% of Spanish government's
budget, banks do it.
BTW, most Spanish, Italian and Greek debt, which is the main
"reason" for cutbacks in healthcare, education and every
other social expenditure.
Do you know who owns most of that debt? private german
banks.
That is why Mrs. Merkel is so stressed with the possibility
of Greek government stopping any debt payments.
Regards,
Kenneth
Al 16/05/12 18:29, En/na Justus Römeth ha escrit:
Well, we are talking about it in Germany,
because of immigration and our universal care system
it will hit us sooner rather than later. I don't think
that austerity is the biggest problem, rather it is
corrupt and incapable politicians that can not be
voted out of office (like in Spain, Italy or Greece)
and budget cuts that hit social welfare and education
rather than infrastructure, politicians' wages or
saving 'important' industries like banks, car
manufacturers and the likes.
The Pirate Party Germany is against the ESM in
its current form (well, officially afaik only the PP
of NRW is against it, but so far any pirate you
talked to thinks that it is a bad idea that is
clearly not working).
Combine that with the unconditional basic income
and the freedom of education (as in educational
material and free schools and universities) that we
have as official aims and I think we have found a
way to solve this crisis over here.
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at
6:10 PM, Richard Stallman <rms at gnu.org>
wrote:
The biggest political
issue in much of Europe today is the austerity
death spiral, aka shock capitalism.
That problem is not occurring in Germany, so the
Pirate Party can get
votes there without talking about that issue.
However, a party in
Spain, Italy, or Greece which doesn't give that
issue an important
place is not addressing the people's concerns.
The coming Greek
election will be, in effect, a referendum on
this.
I therefore propose that the Pirate Movement
take a stand: Tyrant
banks, walk the plank!
--
Dr Richard Stallman
President, Free Software Foundation
51 Franklin St
Boston MA 02110
USA
www.fsf.org
www.gnu.org
Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying)
software.
Use Ekiga or an ordinary phone call
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