[pp.int.general] A Pirate Position on First past the post vs representative voting

[Justus Römeth]

Again, In order to stay believable we really need to show that we do not
promote it because it (also) is in our interest, but because we genuinely
think it is better. I do not disagree with your position here (even though
there are failsafes like election treshholds and a direct and a list vote
for the voters that migitate some of the problems you listed), I just think
that we need to be very conscious on how we comunicate our position to the
voter, and how we make sure that we do not change our position just because
it suits our movement better (because that is exactly the kind of politics
we do not want to do).

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Marko Mitrovic <
marko.mitrovic at piratskapartija.com> wrote:

> *are smaller than
>
>
> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Marko Mitrovic <
> marko.mitrovic at piratskapartija.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, of course. I only pointed out that it *is *in our best interest
>> anyway, on top of the fact that system is simply better(in my opinion at
>> least).
>>
>> Living in a country where proportional system is in place since fall of
>> communists, it is only natural to me. There are some downsides like small
>> parties with only goal to get few seats here and there that are only
>> wasting space or relative danger of letting extremist parties in
>> parliament, like Golden Dawn in Greece. Also, elected representatives in
>> practice don't owe loyalty to voters but to their parties.
>>
>> However, all those possible downsides are smaller that biggest flaw of
>> first past the post and similar systems - creation of
>> bipartisan/tripartisan political scene.
>>
>> It might be hard to win bigger parties over as it is clearly in their *political
>> interest* for system to remain the same and flaws proportional system
>> can be easily found in their eyes.
>>
>> I think we should be aiming at diversity and ability for new fresh ideas
>> to break through that proportional system offers. It is also far more
>> dynamic.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Justus Römeth <squig at dfpx.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, of course I meant proportional, sorry about that.
>>>
>>> The thing is, I thought we wanted to do what is good for our societies,
>>> and develop our policies from there. If we only wanted to do what is best
>>> for us (personally or our party) we would want to gain 50% of the vote and
>>> then introduce FPTP everywhere, to promote stability and our world-view. I
>>> think if we genuinely want to argue that a proportional system is better we
>>> need to develop positions as to why it is better, hopefully with arguments
>>> that are theoretically strong enough to even win some people within the
>>> bigger parties over (as it is their current supporters we need to win over
>>> in order to really have an impact). That was the direction I was trying to
>>> aim with my Email.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 3:35 PM, Marko Mitrovic <
>>> marko.mitrovic at piratskapartija.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> By representative you mean proportional system, right?
>>>>
>>>> Well, from political point of view it is only logical that we favor
>>>> proportional system as we are new emerging party and would find very hard
>>>> to break into first past the post system any time soon. Proportional system
>>>> is also more democratic as it makes possible for smaller parties to be
>>>> represented in parliament. And proportional system would make it easier to
>>>> shift to some more direct-democracy-ish system in the future.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 3:16 PM, Justus Römeth <roemeth at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Moin Pirates
>>>>>
>>>>> James O'Keefe, Captain of the Pirate Party of Massachusetts, stated in
>>>>> his interview <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI-zueFMqSY> with
>>>>> Etopia news that he thinks that representative voting systems are something
>>>>> he as a Pirate would like to also see in the US. Is that something that is
>>>>> mirrored by other parties with similar political systems, like PPFR, PPUK
>>>>> or PPES? And if it is, is there a way we can develop and formulate a
>>>>> coherent position that could become part of future Pirate Party political
>>>>> statements? Do you think a statement on this position is desireable?
>>>>> If it is, how do we make sure that a) there really is a change on this
>>>>> once we have electoral success (and not fail like the LibDems in the UK),
>>>>> and b) how can we reach out to other parties that share this position (like
>>>>> the Green parties in the UK, US and France)?
>>>>>
>>>>> kind regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Justus Römeth
>>>>>
>>>>> ____________________________________________________
>>>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ____________________________________________________
>>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________
>>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>
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