[pp.int.general] Italian Pirate Party - Scandal

[MRE]

Dear Antonio,

I don't understand why you find it so funny that I think the PPI has
the right to decide upon its members but it does not have the right to
decide upon PP-IT members (unless all the involved parties agree on
PPI arbitration to solve something that is an internal problem). Do
you think that the PPI should be able to decide who is and who is not
a member of PP-IT?

Best regards,

                 Muriel



2012/9/25 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:
> The possible problems concerning the actual governance model of the Pirate
> Party of Italy... could and have been completely anticipated, and reality is
> confirming the hypotheses.
>
> I find it extremely funny that Muriel has the guts to come out lecturing
> about what she understands well and what everybody should do to solve this
> case, considering all the trouble Pirates de Catalunya has caused and is
> still causing in the PPI, using blackmail to the PPI GA 2012 and ridiculing
> its Court of Arbitration to the point it has had to resign in full so as to
> avoid the PPI being put on trial before ordinary courts of justice over the
> results of the Prague GA.
>
> The fact that Catalan Pirates are much liked among the populist oriented
> pirate parties, and less among the serious ones might start a serious Civil
> War in Pirate Universe.
>
> Issues pending at this Court of Arbitration that will resume as soon as it
> is reconstituted will inevitably lead to them being kicked out of PPI full
> membership at least, as their admission was in breach of present Statutes,
> no reward for blackmail can ever be accepted by true Pirates, and the
> resolution of the CoA that judged questionably about the meaning of the word
> "Country" in the Statutes of PPI to grant Spain an unasked for second
> Gibraltar in Catalonia, and fraudulently rephrased one of the articles of
> the Statutes to grant the General Assembly more discretionary decision power
> on the admittance of new members than she really has (sidetracking for the
> Catalonian Pirate Party provisions in the Statutes that were strictly
> observed to reject the application of other Pirate Parties), will be
> declared void.
>
> I have no clue, yet, about what happened in the Serbian Pirate Party, but I
> certainly am not admitting a mere "case solved, walk around, nothing to see
> here" issued by one of the involved parts as enough to consider it solved.
> I'll consider evidence presented before a court... by both sides.
>
>
> Amateurish proceeding and excessive leniency and self-indulgence on behalf
> of the delegates of too many Pirate Parties caused the PPI unavoidable
> troubles during the GA of 2012, building on similar mischief in previous
> ones, and is having now and will have future consequences the behaviour of
> some on the board is only stalling.
>
> Our proven inability to agree on how to proceed with PPEU is a result of the
> previously existing mess that will have to be sorted out thoroughly as soon
> as possible... if we do not want troubles to accumulate, only to burst into
> severe inconveniences at the most inappropriate of moments.
>
> My 2 cents, highly appreciated by some, and hated by others, but mine by
> birthright ;) .
>
>
> Antonio.
> PP-ES
>
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:00:28 +0200
> From: piratska.partija.srbije at gmail.com
> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Italian Pirate Party - Scandal
>
>
> +1 on Muriel's email
>
> About "Serbian case", it is solved. Racists like Jelena Jovanovic (sad but
> true, she is still engaged with PPI, which opens another serious question)
> and homophobes are out and banned from Serbian Pirate Party.
>
> We are sailing steady now.
>
> *I see that additional informations on our "case" are needed. they are
> ready, and they will follow soon
> **this "chase" for PPI legitimization and whining for membership is rather
> interesting (since PPI board has at least one very questionable person), PPI
> is becoming TV-style myth of public legitimization imho
>
> On 09/25/2012 01:32 PM, MRE wrote:
>
> Dear Pilar,
>
> So, if I understood well, to register to the Italian Pirate Party you
> need that someone who is already a member somehow certifies the new
> members.
>
> And all these people that you represent and want to vote in the
> Italian liquid feedback system have been certified in particular by
> Carlo Brancati, who has been, if I understood correctly, at least
> partly banned from some PP-IT lists and the liquid feedback system
> through a voting in the liquid feedback itself?
>
> For the PPI to issue any kind of arbitration on this issue, all
> parties (the people who want to become members, PP-IT, and the PPI
> itself) should agree that this is what they want. Then I guess a
> comission of qualified volunteers or something of the sort should be
> formed so that they can investigate the matter in depth.
>
> Any opinion we state in this list is basically useless, because PPI
> does not rule over the parties, and this list does not represent PPI
> anyway. I believe that if you all want/accept PPI as an arbitrator you
> should send a formal request to the board.
>
> Best regards,
>
>                 Muriel
>
>
>
> 2012/9/25 Pilar Saavedra <pilarsaavedra.p at gmail.com>:
>
> Dear PP International,
>
>
>
> I represent here 35 people from various fields (IT professionals,
> Journalists and Media/Communication Managers) that are waiting to be
> inserted in the Italian Pirate Party since 3 months now.
>
> We have been regularly certified and we paid the subscription fees.
>
> You can find all the forms with original signatures here:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/caafv4ianc7l7fg/RE6_FBQTqN
>
>
>
> The problem is clear: the subscription would give us also the right to vote
> in Liquid Feedback witch is binding and fully decisional by Statutes for the
> PP IT.
>
> So it’s quite clear that the Liquid Feedback administrator is not inserting
> us because he’s afraid that we will vote against his (or his group of
> friends?) proposals and we could take the control of the Party…
>
>
>
> Isn’t this a real paradox and scandal for a Party that wants to promote
> transparency, openness and liquid democracy?
>
> I really hope that someone from the PP Int can take charge of this because
> it’s simply destroying the Pirates’ reputation even at an international
> level.
>
>
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
>
> Pilar Saavedra
>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> I prefer to have options, rather than plans.
> Aleksandar Blagojevic aka blaeks
> former PPI board member
> founder of Pirate party of Serbia
>
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