[pp.int.general] Italian Pirate Party - Scandal

Tue Sep 25 16:21:32 CEST 2012

Dear Antonio: get a life.

Topic PP-IT: you talk about PP-CAT
Topic PP-RS: you talk about PP-CAT

And well, your obsession with Gibraltar is too funny to be true xDDD

BTW. Is it true that you got banned from many PP-ES mailing lists
because they got rid of you?

TIP: visit a doctor.

Regards,

Kenneth

Al 25/09/12 15:30, En/na MRE ha escrit:
> Dear Antonio,
>
> I don't understand why you find it so funny that I think the PPI has
> the right to decide upon its members but it does not have the right to
> decide upon PP-IT members (unless all the involved parties agree on
> PPI arbitration to solve something that is an internal problem). Do
> you think that the PPI should be able to decide who is and who is not
> a member of PP-IT?
>
> Best regards,
>
>                  Muriel
>
>
>
> 2012/9/25 Antonio Garcia <ningunotro at hotmail.com>:
>> The possible problems concerning the actual governance model of the Pirate
>> Party of Italy... could and have been completely anticipated, and reality is
>> confirming the hypotheses.
>>
>> I find it extremely funny that Muriel has the guts to come out lecturing
>> about what she understands well and what everybody should do to solve this
>> case, considering all the trouble Pirates de Catalunya has caused and is
>> still causing in the PPI, using blackmail to the PPI GA 2012 and ridiculing
>> its Court of Arbitration to the point it has had to resign in full so as to
>> avoid the PPI being put on trial before ordinary courts of justice over the
>> results of the Prague GA.
>>
>> The fact that Catalan Pirates are much liked among the populist oriented
>> pirate parties, and less among the serious ones might start a serious Civil
>> War in Pirate Universe.
>>
>> Issues pending at this Court of Arbitration that will resume as soon as it
>> is reconstituted will inevitably lead to them being kicked out of PPI full
>> membership at least, as their admission was in breach of present Statutes,
>> no reward for blackmail can ever be accepted by true Pirates, and the
>> resolution of the CoA that judged questionably about the meaning of the word
>> "Country" in the Statutes of PPI to grant Spain an unasked for second
>> Gibraltar in Catalonia, and fraudulently rephrased one of the articles of
>> the Statutes to grant the General Assembly more discretionary decision power
>> on the admittance of new members than she really has (sidetracking for the
>> Catalonian Pirate Party provisions in the Statutes that were strictly
>> observed to reject the application of other Pirate Parties), will be
>> declared void.
>>
>> I have no clue, yet, about what happened in the Serbian Pirate Party, but I
>> certainly am not admitting a mere "case solved, walk around, nothing to see
>> here" issued by one of the involved parts as enough to consider it solved.
>> I'll consider evidence presented before a court... by both sides.
>>
>>
>> Amateurish proceeding and excessive leniency and self-indulgence on behalf
>> of the delegates of too many Pirate Parties caused the PPI unavoidable
>> troubles during the GA of 2012, building on similar mischief in previous
>> ones, and is having now and will have future consequences the behaviour of
>> some on the board is only stalling.
>>
>> Our proven inability to agree on how to proceed with PPEU is a result of the
>> previously existing mess that will have to be sorted out thoroughly as soon
>> as possible... if we do not want troubles to accumulate, only to burst into
>> severe inconveniences at the most inappropriate of moments.
>>
>> My 2 cents, highly appreciated by some, and hated by others, but mine by
>> birthright ;) .
>>
>>
>> Antonio.
>> PP-ES
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:00:28 +0200
>> From: piratska.partija.srbije at gmail.com
>> To: pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> Subject: Re: [pp.int.general] Italian Pirate Party - Scandal
>>
>>
>> +1 on Muriel's email
>>
>> About "Serbian case", it is solved. Racists like Jelena Jovanovic (sad but
>> true, she is still engaged with PPI, which opens another serious question)
>> and homophobes are out and banned from Serbian Pirate Party.
>>
>> We are sailing steady now.
>>
>> *I see that additional informations on our "case" are needed. they are
>> ready, and they will follow soon
>> **this "chase" for PPI legitimization and whining for membership is rather
>> interesting (since PPI board has at least one very questionable person), PPI
>> is becoming TV-style myth of public legitimization imho
>>
>> On 09/25/2012 01:32 PM, MRE wrote:
>>
>> Dear Pilar,
>>
>> So, if I understood well, to register to the Italian Pirate Party you
>> need that someone who is already a member somehow certifies the new
>> members.
>>
>> And all these people that you represent and want to vote in the
>> Italian liquid feedback system have been certified in particular by
>> Carlo Brancati, who has been, if I understood correctly, at least
>> partly banned from some PP-IT lists and the liquid feedback system
>> through a voting in the liquid feedback itself?
>>
>> For the PPI to issue any kind of arbitration on this issue, all
>> parties (the people who want to become members, PP-IT, and the PPI
>> itself) should agree that this is what they want. Then I guess a
>> comission of qualified volunteers or something of the sort should be
>> formed so that they can investigate the matter in depth.
>>
>> Any opinion we state in this list is basically useless, because PPI
>> does not rule over the parties, and this list does not represent PPI
>> anyway. I believe that if you all want/accept PPI as an arbitrator you
>> should send a formal request to the board.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>                 Muriel
>>
>>
>>
>> 2012/9/25 Pilar Saavedra <pilarsaavedra.p at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Dear PP International,
>>
>>
>>
>> I represent here 35 people from various fields (IT professionals,
>> Journalists and Media/Communication Managers) that are waiting to be
>> inserted in the Italian Pirate Party since 3 months now.
>>
>> We have been regularly certified and we paid the subscription fees.
>>
>> You can find all the forms with original signatures here:
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/caafv4ianc7l7fg/RE6_FBQTqN
>>
>>
>>
>> The problem is clear: the subscription would give us also the right to vote
>> in Liquid Feedback witch is binding and fully decisional by Statutes for the
>> PP IT.
>>
>> So it’s quite clear that the Liquid Feedback administrator is not inserting
>> us because he’s afraid that we will vote against his (or his group of
>> friends?) proposals and we could take the control of the Party…
>>
>>
>>
>> Isn’t this a real paradox and scandal for a Party that wants to promote
>> transparency, openness and liquid democracy?
>>
>> I really hope that someone from the PP Int can take charge of this because
>> it’s simply destroying the Pirates’ reputation even at an international
>> level.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Pilar Saavedra
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> I prefer to have options, rather than plans.
>> Aleksandar Blagojevic aka blaeks
>> former PPI board member
>> founder of Pirate party of Serbia
>>
>> ____________________________________________________ Pirate Parties
>> International - General Talk pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
>> http://lists.pirateweb.net/mailman/listinfo/pp.international.general
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Pirate Parties International - General Talk
>> pp.international.general at lists.pirateweb.net
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>>
> ____________________________________________________
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