[pp.int.general] Transparency in the party

thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl
Wed Feb 27 15:03:40 CET 2013

Oh nuances & implementations can be put right - his principle point is 
corruption - which can only be fought with transparency. Direct 
democracy & free access to internet is also incorporated. These are 
exactly the emotional motivators on which pirate parties operate. Sure, 
he has some old people's stances on some issues, but then again his 
voter base young - and to them he will have to cater eventually. And 
sure, you can highlight these differences in implementation and rational 
detail, but that's not where the vote is decided. And looking at you 
guys and looking at Grillo, when I am concerned about corruption, free 
access to internet and direct democracy - well, what do you think?

Copyright, trademarks etc aren't in themselves as interesting as you 
make them out to be, that's the professional deformation in which you 
have to be able to defend alternatives to the present state of affairs. 
What makes them interesting is the structural abuse of democratic rights 
and functioning that is required to uphold them and the extend to which 
the right holders succeed in this part. And that leads straight back to 
the points of transparency, direct democracy and so forth. He is totally 
cashing in on the emotions that should fuel your fire, and where there 
is popular movement in this direction, even if Mussolini himself 
championed it, there is much to be gained before a degree of satisfied 
inactivity will return to the general populace.

Cal. schreef op 27.02.2013 14:41:
> On 27 February 2013 14:15,  <thijs.markus at piratenpartij.nl> wrote:
>> Grillo got 25% of the vote on a platform incorporating the pirate 
>> platform.
> I don't know where you took these infos. Grillo is not incorporating
> pirate platform, Grillo is selling a fascist police state where "you
> have nothing to hide, you shouldn't worry about surveillance." He's
> selling this mentioning that he'll use those means on corrupted
> politicians (think about who is deciding if you are corrupted or 
> not).
> I strongly doubt Grillo wants to reform copyright or trademarks: he's
> living off the dvds (yes, 12cm plastic discs!) sold on his blog; and
> keeping control over his "movimento 5 stelle" by personally owning 
> its
> emblem; the "movimento" also lacks any statutes, giving him imperial
> rights.
> He's against anonymity in communication; he wants to jail anyone
> suspected; he's mixed feelings on civil rights (does not want ius
> soli, but progressive on bioethical issues); he's strongly
> euro-skeptical and asks for a referendum about permanence of italy in
> eurozone.
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